why is it so important to have your thumb in the middle of the neck?

peaveyuser · #1 01-02-2008, 05:58 PM

when I play I tend to have my thumb behind the neck but not centered some of the time, it tends to pop up on top of the neck. It just seems more comfortable and there is also less strain and more flexibility when I play like this. Although I keep getting comments on my thumb popping out and how I should have it centered. For example in this YT video of mine http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=PuPwy0xJYSM I play the song pretty spot on but I do get comments on my thumb. While I do like the fact they are trying to help and giving me advice I just don't get the full reason why I should alter my technique so my thumb is better positioned. Could someone shed some light on this?

MyUsernameHere · #2 01-02-2008, 06:19 PM

Better wrist angle, less friction between the hand and the neck when moving around, promotes a better, more precise attack when pressing down on the strings--helps you depress a single string with the tip of the finger instead of the pad and is generally just a more sound mechanical position with your fingers depressing the strings and the thumb anchoring the hand parallel to the fingers rather than offset (how you would normally pinch something between the ends of the thumb and fingers not between the end of the fingers and some part of the palm).

Bassguy87564 · #3 01-02-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyUsernameHere

Better wrist angle, less friction between the hand and the neck when moving around, promotes a better, more precise attack when pressing down on the strings--helps you depress a single string with the tip of the finger instead of the pad and is generally just a more sound mechanical position with your fingers depressing the strings and the thumb anchoring the hand parallel to the fingers rather than offset (how you would normally pinch something between the ends of the thumb and fingers not between the end of the fingers and some part of the palm).

+1 you also have better reach for the low strings and more straight in your hammer-ons. Also you can spread your fingers farther with your thumb in the center of the neck, hanging your thumb over like that tightens your tendons in your fingers and you cant spread them out as far.

Lalabadie · #4 01-02-2008, 07:06 PM

It's just a habit to take, I used to practice it and it slowly faded into my regular playing. I find it much easier to move around the neck and stretch out my fingers. Slides are also a lot more consistent when you don't have to "unwrap" your hand from a position to another (no more accidental bends). Plus, I don't really get those occasional forearm pains anymore.

dreadheadbass · #5 01-02-2008, 07:21 PM

i go 2 ways on this i think it depends more on how high or low your bass is
if you bass is swinging round your knee's getting your thumb in the center of the neck will mean your wrist as at 90 degrees

if your bass is high its without a doubt the most comfy and less straining way to play (thumb centered that is)

i'm not sure though i hook my thumb over the neck from time to time i also center it if i'm coming up to a big stretch or a chord each to there own i guess

i'm sure i've seen sheehan and harris hook there thumb over the neck in fact i remember seeing a few well known pro's do it from time to time i just alternate to which ever is the most comfy to play for any giver riff, lick, or run

i dont think it a concrete rule you HAVE to obey but its good to learn to play properly 1st before you start exploring "other" techniques

Twiggeh · #6 01-02-2008, 07:26 PM

The replies here really helped me, it's a problem that I have as well =\. I'm self-taught from dvds and they always make a point of that but never explained why, and thus I simply kept my thumb high (perhaps a habit retained from having played electric guitar before moving to bass). Now that I know though I'll try to make a point of keeping my thumb in the proper way and see.

BuffaloBass · #7 01-02-2008, 07:40 PM

Thumb there and knuckles parallel to the fretboard is key on a 5'er for string muting and comfy reach. Smallest hands in the world can play a 5, 6 string with the right technique.

peaveyuser · #8 01-02-2008, 08:37 PM

Thats the thing when playing a song like Sweet Child O mine where I'm just basically in a relaxed playing form my thumb pops up. But I do alternate for example when I'm doing fast hammer ons and big stretches I tend to center my thumb. I noticed this when I was playing the main riff to Master Of Puppets, Cowboys From Hell and Scarified which all take fairly large stretches. So I guess it's not that bad as I do have it centered when needed but not all the time but I can't center it all the time as my arm & wrist angle get weird and it starts getting uncomfortable. Also if I practice more with my thumb on centered more will it show after a period of time? Is it a hard habit to break?

xafofo · #9 01-02-2008, 08:39 PM

i think your thumb position isn't too bad. the real key is the wrist angle.. proper thumb position is a result of proper wrist angle, not the other way around

from watching your vid, it seems the main cause of bad wrist angles comes from fretting with flat fingers (ie. the top joint of your finger is totally relaxed), most obviously with the middle finger. this is causing you to apply pressure by flexing your wrist back

magnusdeus123 · #10 01-03-2008, 12:37 AM

I shift depending of the verse I need to play . When playing passages requiring 4 finger stretchs in over the first 4 frets , then it's the correct position . Otherwise , I kinda like having the ability to be able to shift in and out of hangin on the neck and then back to the back of the neck , because I've noticed that if I just stick it to the back of the neck the whole time , the strain starts killing me . Even for a second if I let my thumb slip over and let the neck take the weight , it's kinda relaxing , and gets me ready to play the next phrase comfortably .

crkempton · #11 01-03-2008, 01:18 AM

yeah, i guess i have the same problem. My thumb kinda floats in and out of sight. For me it almost feels like i'm tweaking my rist in order to keep my thumb centered. I dunno.... here's what i mean http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=ei6Cyt3d-5k

crkempton · #12 01-03-2008, 01:24 AM

hmmm this thread really got me thinking.... if you notice Larry Graham in THIS video is thumb hangs over the edge of the neck throughout most the song. I dunno, now i'm really confused.

peaveyuser · #13 01-03-2008, 01:47 AM

I noticed one of my favorite bassists Cliff Burton has his thumb regularly over his neck

just check it out http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=22W38jJk81s

Vandelay · #14 01-03-2008, 02:02 AM

Ever notice the picture in the upper-right corner of every TalkBass page?

My thumb sometimes wraps around side of the neck when I'm playing the 1st thru 4th frets. It goes back behind the neck when I'm playing higher frets. It's just a reflex, I suppose -- because the neck is so much smaller there -- but my instructor ALWAYS points it out. I'm working on correcting it.

JLW · #15 01-03-2008, 06:15 AM

Cliff Burton, Larry Graham and other bassists such as that don't always have the best technique.

Flea puts his thumb over the neck too. Doesn't mean it's proper technique.

Victor Wooten, Steve Bailey, and other true virtuosos will not be seen with their thumbs over the neck all that often.

Center your thumb over the middle of the neck. You will be able to access more frets. You will have better tone because you'll be using the tip of your finger, not the pad, to press down on frets.

This will be a pain in the neck and really uncomfortable at first. It will feel very unnatural. But just keep practicing scales using the technique and if you do it constantly, after 3 days you'll feel natural while doing it.

It's worth it to take the extra time to learn it.

peaveyuser · #16 01-03-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLW

Cliff Burton, Larry Graham and other bassists such as that don't always have the best technique.

Flea puts his thumb over the neck too. Doesn't mean it's proper technique.

Victor Wooten, Steve Bailey, and other true virtuosos will not be seen with their thumbs over the neck all that often.

Center your thumb over the middle of the neck. You will be able to access more frets. You will have better tone because you'll be using the tip of your finger, not the pad, to press down on frets.

This will be a pain in the neck and really uncomfortable at first. It will feel very unnatural. But just keep practicing scales using the technique and if you do it constantly, after 3 days you'll feel natural while doing it.

It's worth it to take the extra time to learn it.

Hey I'll still work on I just don't feel as much of a noob cause some other respectable bassists do it

JLW · #17 01-03-2008, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peaveyuser

Hey I'll still work on I just don't feel as much of a noob cause some other respectable bassists do it

yea i wouldnt sweat it too much. but when you start trying to play harder lines (Teen Town by Jaco Pastorius, or Portrait of Tracy with those BIG harmonic chord/stretches) it will be impossible to do it with the "thumb over neck" hand positioning.

CapnSev · #18 01-03-2008, 09:58 AM

Some people can get away with it, but my left wrist will tell me otherwise.

lemur821 · #19 01-03-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLW

Victor Wooten, Steve Bailey, and other true virtuosos will not be seen with their thumbs over the neck all that often.

Sure they will. Probably not during a solo when the camera is on them, but pretty often.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I88hWxaWgws

What you won't see them do is stubbornly try for some ideal hand position for no reason, or try to play something fancy with the wrong position for it.

PaulMacCnj · #20 01-03-2008, 10:48 AM

I'll probably piss-off some people by saying this. I think it's elitest snobbery to tell someone that there's one and only one "proper" technique for any aspect of playing. I don't understand the obsession with so much objectivity towards something as subjective as music. About thumb position, why care? Heck, I've even seen plenty of professional bassists use their thumb for fretting strings. Oooooooh! Let's call the technique police and have them banned from ever playing again.

Okay, rant over....