Wrist/thumb/fingers

[bigkeenanh]

Alright, let me start off by saying I've been reading around here the past few days and am learning a ton. I'm completely broke, so no way I can get lessons. I've got a friend who's really good at bass, but I wont see him again until Christmas (we're at different Colleges). So I'll be self-taught, other then what I can pick up here.

I was reading a thread that talked about hitchhiking thumbs. This made me realize I really have no idea how I should be holding the neck (ie. wrist positioning, what my thumb should be doing, etc).

Would anyone mind pointing me in the right direction as to where I could find my answer (any good articles or videos), or possibly giving me some pointers?

Thanks in advanced,
Keenan "All this is new to me" Hollingsworth

[Liko]

Well, you probably read my post in the other thread, so I won't repeat too much, but...

In general, you should position and hold the bass in a way that's comfortable for you long-term. It's not important to keep your wrists totally straight, but it IS important not to have an extreme bend in either wrist (like more than 30-45⁰). That will cause you pain and could lead to carpal tunnel. I find that the most comfortable position for me is with the neck joint somewhere between the level of my navel and my belt buckle, and the neck angled upwards so I can get my wrist under the neck without bending it. You'll get a muscle ache in your upper arm after half an hour to an hour; that's your deltoid (the muscle on the outside of your shoulder) having to keep your arm in the air. That is perfectly normal, but if your neck muscles like your trapezius start to ache, you're likely doing something wrong like tensing your entire arm.

You fingers should be slightly curved. There are phenomenal bass players who look like they're keeping their fingers straight, and others that actually do, but I think you'll find that a noticeable curve will allow you to apply pressure more specifically to strings, which decreases the finger strength required and also decreases unwanted string noise. To get an idea of what you should be aiming for, place your finger on a tabletop or desktop with your fingernail at a 30 to 45⁰ angle with the surface of the table. Your finger will be pressing against the table from the center of your pad to the bottom of your fingertip. Fret a string the same way, and you'll be using the thickest part of your fingertip to do the job. If you use your fingertips, guitar-style, you'll have accuracy problems and more finger pain, because you'll be using the thinnest, smallest portion of your finger. Concentrate on fretting a note and changing notes with the least possible motion required. Lifting your finger way off the fretboard wastes motion and slows you down, but you do have to clear the vibrating string or you'll mute the string.

Now, the thumb on the back of the neck is a common source of problems for beginners. You've read this in the other thread, but the thumb is a positional guide and a stabilizer, NOT a source of counterpressure. If you apply pressure with your thumb, as if you were pressing finger to thumb, you will tense up all the muscles in your fretting hand. Tense muscles don't move quickly, resulting in you hitting a barrier in your playing speed later on. You should be able, by applying counterpressure with your right forearm instead of your thumb, be able to drop your thumb from the neck and play normally.

Your plucking hand is a little easier to address. Generally, you want your forearm resting on the upper bout, and your thumb resting either on the top of the neck pickup or on the thickest string. Obviously you have to remove it to play notes on that string, but it's a bad habit to move your thumb down beyond the thickest string (there's some debate about whether it's OK to put your thumb on the E on a five-string bass when not playing on the E or B, which makes it feel more like a four-string). With your hand resting thusly, you should have the minimum amount of bend in your wrist, and your fingers should be roughly perpendicular to the strings. Curve your index finger slightly, place the same area of the finger you are using on your other hand on the far side of the string, and pull towards you, keeping your finger as slack as possible while keeping the finger curved. Don't place your finger on top of the string and pluck downwards into the bass; that creates a clacking sound when you play more forcefully. Plucking across the string allows you to "dig in" more without undesireable string noise.

Them's the basics; during your first few practice sessions, concentrate on doing these things. But, don't forget to play. All the technique in the world is no substitute for feeling and musicality, and if you're concentrating too hard on doing it right you may well end up making other, worse mistakes (I'm going through a similar thing with my golf swing; I focus too much on doing everything exactly like the instructor says, and in doing so I stop actually hitting the ****in' ball )

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by Liko

Well, you probably read my post in the other thread, so I won't repeat too much, but...

In general, you should position and hold the bass in a way that's comfortable for you long-term. It's not important to keep your wrists totally straight, but it IS important not to have an extreme bend in either wrist (like more than 30-45⁰). That will cause you pain and could lead to carpal tunnel. I find that the most comfortable position for me is with the neck joint somewhere between the level of my navel and my belt buckle, and the neck angled upwards so I can get my wrist under the neck without bending it. You'll get a muscle ache in your upper arm after half an hour to an hour; that's your deltoid (the muscle on the outside of your shoulder) having to keep your arm in the air. That is perfectly normal, but if your neck muscles like your trapezius start to ache, you're likely doing something wrong like tensing your entire arm.

You fingers should be slightly curved. There are phenomenal bass players who look like they're keeping their fingers straight, and others that actually do, but I think you'll find that a noticeable curve will allow you to apply pressure more specifically to strings, which decreases the finger strength required and also decreases unwanted string noise. To get an idea of what you should be aiming for, place your finger on a tabletop or desktop with your fingernail at a 30 to 45⁰ angle with the surface of the table. Your finger will be pressing against the table from the center of your pad to the bottom of your fingertip. Fret a string the same way, and you'll be using the thickest part of your fingertip to do the job. If you use your fingertips, guitar-style, you'll have accuracy problems and more finger pain, because you'll be using the thinnest, smallest portion of your finger. Concentrate on fretting a note and changing notes with the least possible motion required. Lifting your finger way off the fretboard wastes motion and slows you down, but you do have to clear the vibrating string or you'll mute the string.

Now, the thumb on the back of the neck is a common source of problems for beginners. You've read this in the other thread, but the thumb is a positional guide and a stabilizer, NOT a source of counterpressure. If you apply pressure with your thumb, as if you were pressing finger to thumb, you will tense up all the muscles in your fretting hand. Tense muscles don't move quickly, resulting in you hitting a barrier in your playing speed later on. You should be able, by applying counterpressure with your right forearm instead of your thumb, be able to drop your thumb from the neck and play normally.

Your plucking hand is a little easier to address. Generally, you want your forearm resting on the upper bout, and your thumb resting either on the top of the neck pickup or on the thickest string. Obviously you have to remove it to play notes on that string, but it's a bad habit to move your thumb down beyond the thickest string (there's some debate about whether it's OK to put your thumb on the E on a five-string bass when not playing on the E or B, which makes it feel more like a four-string). With your hand resting thusly, you should have the minimum amount of bend in your wrist, and your fingers should be roughly perpendicular to the strings. Curve your index finger slightly, place the same area of the finger you are using on your other hand on the far side of the string, and pull towards you, keeping your finger as slack as possible while keeping the finger curved. Don't place your finger on top of the string and pluck downwards into the bass; that creates a clacking sound when you play more forcefully. Plucking across the string allows you to "dig in" more without undesirable string noise.

Them's the basics; during your first few practice sessions, concentrate on doing these things. But, don't forget to play. All the technique in the world is no substitute for feeling and musicality, and if you're concentrating too hard on doing it right you may well end up making other, worse mistakes (I'm going through a similar thing with my golf swing; I focus too much on doing everything exactly like the instructor says, and in doing so I stop actually hitting the ****in' ball )

In general I agree with you but two things.

First the left hand and thumb. It is there for pressure to hold down the string, what is important is you don't used too much pressure as you note. First show student the proper position without the bass neck. Have them touch tip of thumb to tip of middle finger and note the curve of the fingers. That is bassically what you want only with your bass neck in there. Position the thumb basically in middle of back of neck and other fingers on fingerboard with middle finger over where thumb is on the back of the neck. Doing this create a kind of C-clamp that requires less pressure to hold down the strings so fingers don't tire as easliy. Then you learn to keep thumb in positons according to scale fingering and pivot up or down as needed, but thumb is the anchor point. That way you pivot back to same position without looking because thumb didn't move. Thumb only needs to move when you change positions.

Second I whole heartedly disagree with your anchor right hand thumb. I know many do it, I did it at one point, but it is a terrible habit. Floating thumb or floating anchor is the better way to go. Todd Johnson forum here on TB has threads in it. Todd has videos demo'ing it and even the old video of James Jamerson show he was using Floating thumb. If you anchor everytime you change strings you change your angle of attack of the string. Also as you go up to higher string you are increasing the wrist bend another bad thing. You move to 5 or more string basses and it's not practical at all. Also the thumb is important part of right hand string muting. You can't mute strings with the thumb anchored to a pickup. I play a lot of 5 and 6 string bass and floating thumb is manditory to stop sympathetic string vibration that muddies bass tone. I see a lot of player complain about muddy tone and blame their gear. Soon and you show them it sympathetic string vibration their tone gets clear and their GAS pains go down. So that point I totally disagree with you on.

[bigkeenanh]

Thanks fellas, much appreciated.

Originally Posted by Liko

You'll get a muscle ache in your upper arm after half an hour to an hour; that's your deltoid (the muscle on the outside of your shoulder) having to keep your arm in the air. That is perfectly normal, but if your neck muscles like your trapezius start to ache, you're likely doing something wrong like tensing your entire arm.

I'm a competitive powerlifter, and my left forearm aches lol. Delts are fine.

If you traps ached it'd mean you were "shrugging" the guitar up the whole time.


Thanks again.

[Audiophage]

Haha, Bassically.