writing your own lines separate from the guitar

[jokersdemise]

I started bass in November of 09 for a punk band but left that band to play with a friend in his thrash metal band. While i knew it was still really far from my capabilities (I used to play alternative/punk on the guitar for about a year and a half before i picked the bass up) I decided that this would increase my playing ability.

Yet im stuck. when i started playing with them in December, i used to play with a pick and could not keep up with their speed but now (7 months later) i can play at their speed with my fingers. So at least i know i grew up in an area.But I've been feeling useless lately that me and my aforementioned friend moved into another band with an incredible guitarist who has amazing guitar skill.

He writes all the bass lines because he never wants to show me what he's playing in the guitar so all i play are basslines that i make from his playing with my crappily trained ear.

What i want to know is how can i compliment his guitar lines? or how can i follow the drums? just trying to find my own voice with the bass. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[rebelscum]

Originally Posted by jokersdemise

What i want to know is how can i compliment his guitar lines? or how can i follow the drums? just trying to find my own voice with the bass. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

This. I play metal almost exclusively, and always follow the drummer while keeping to the riff. Listen to the bass drum. You will get it if your drummer can stay in meter. I'm sure others will chime in with more input.

Cheers!

[T.A.P Bass]

Go listen to how other bass players within your style interact with their drummers and guitards... Try to find the tabs to certain songs to help figure out what it is these bassists are doing... I had this problem years ago and this was the approach I took to help with writing my parts in the various bands I've been in over the years. Sometimes you will find that locking in a duplicating a guitar part with a completely differnet tone will do the job, it maybe that you have to harmonize the part.... you are only limited by your imagination and skill set.. The more that these two areas can be expanded, the more versatile of a player you will be as you will have more to draw upon when crafting your parts. It takes time, but it is so worth it in the long run.

[kuys]

Do you know how to play in key?

If you know what key he is in and know when or if he changes key it should be rather easy to just play in those empty spaces.

I play with a metal guitarist sometimes that to be honest is soo freaking boring. He can shred like nobodies business but he can't write something with any emotion or originality. It's just runs in this or that particular mode. Total wank fest stuff. Not surprising really since Steve Vai is his hero.

[ridgeback]

learn the vocal melody on the bass ,and use some of the guitar rifs and blend them together with the drummer..
the situation with the guitar player needs to be sorted,why will he not show you what he is doing? being in a band is about different musicians joining their skill together..if its his ego thats the problem walk away now because it wont change..your the bass player or not..bands will never work if its all about one person and your not that long playing also and there is a lot to learn if he is just giving you lines to play maybeits his way of trying to help?sit down and have a chat about it...if its not worted out you will end up just quiting because it is not fun..

[theunknowndude]

make it interesting, follow drums in one part, follow guitars in another, then play in between them the next....

it took me a while but I learnt not to copy my guitarist riff for riff now and its good to be able to jazz up or highlight certain sections as opposed to just being the bottom end of all the guitar riffs

follow the bass drum but if its insane double kicks you can also listen to other things in the pattern like the snare to get things going

ill be the first to admit my guitarist is egotistical but ive slowly made him learn that I play my way,... sure ill take input when needed but I wont just be a shadow of him!

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by jokersdemise

He writes all the bass lines because he never wants to show me what he's playing in the guitar so all i play are basslines that i make from his playing with my crappily trained ear.

I'm confused -- what type of bass lines is he writing? Standard notation, chord tone interval number, list of chords used, what? Who gets to see what he wrote?
What is he giving you?

[codeinedreams]

there is nothing wrong with learning and playing by ear. If you can develop this skill, you can go a long way when playing in bands. some guitards think it's a pain in the butt to sit down and walk bandmates through everything they're doing. instead, they may think it's easier to just write it all themselves (not that this is OK). or they don't want to show you because they hardly know how to explain it. but if you can follow what he's doing just by hearing it, you should eventually be able to learn songs super fast and not even need other learning devices in a band practice situation (IME).

[jokersdemise]

Thanks for all the advice. Yeah I was a little fuzzy if the bass could follow the guitar AND the drums. One thing i can tell you is that the people i play with dont know theory, they just do it. So keys and all of that is alien tongue. i'll also look into how to play in key with the guitarist. I also dont want to be the shadow of the guitarist, I want to show people what a beautiful instrument the bass is

[60jbass91]

mate think of it as you are the center piece of the band your lines need to link with the drummer and create a nice bedrock for the guitarist to do his arty farty show off crap on. the bass player is like the glue in my mind without a bass player it wouldnt really sound like a band it would sound like a guitarist and a drummer playing in the same room. i know its not your style at all on how you want to play but check out the smiths andy rourke knows how to nail a bass riff and support jonny marr at the same time especially on this charming man or barbarism begins at home. remember the bass is the anchor that keeps the rest of the band in check, it is the all important link between the drums and the guitar without it they would sound rubbish so think how you can support and compliment their playing while showing off your voice at the same time even if it is only following the guitar riff and the bass drum pattern like a previous post said.

James

[60jbass91]

ah reading your last post aswell you should atleast have a look at major and minor scale shapes their very easy to learn and you can move them around anywhere on the neck of the bass if you do this you may find your playing improves a great deal just ask if you need more explaining pal i know im only writing in brief.

James

[theunknowndude]

Originally Posted by 60jbass91

ah reading your last post aswell you should atleast have a look at major and minor scale shapes their very easy to learn and you can move them around anywhere on the neck of the bass if you do this you may find your playing improves a great deal just ask if you need more explaining pal i know im only writing in brief.

James

+1 to this... knowing where your basic major and minor patterns are can change alot of things for the better,... if your guitarist is doing something immensely show offy, you don't have to follow him, can lock in with the rythm of the drums and use your scales to find notes to suit...

basic pattern of major in A starting on 5th fret of E for example, in frets:
6 7
5 7 9
5 7 9

for Minor
5 7
5 7 8
5 7 8

im not the best at theory but thats a good start (I think you can work out where the root note and octave are from there)

other cool things to do for metal are diminished and augmented scales but I won't go into that...
I like one of my songs where I simply use open A to lick in with drums while guitar does his thing then end on 4th fret on D string followed by 3rd fret on A string... try it and see

[megadan]

IMHO if the guitarist and drummer all ready have parts and you're trying to add the bass in, you're doing it in the wrong order.

Let the guitarist just give the briefest of notions ("This chord for this many bars, then...).
THEN write the bass line with the drums, then the guitar is added on top of that. Much easier! And much more expressive and musical.

IMHO.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by jokersdemise

Thanks for all the advice. Yeah I was a little fuzzy if the bass could follow the guitar AND the drums. One thing i can tell you is that the people i play with dont know theory, they just do it. So keys and all of that is alien tongue. i'll also look into how to play in key with the guitarist. I also dont want to be the shadow of the guitarist, I want to show people what a beautiful instrument the bass is

You gotta all be in the same key, if I read your post correct that may not be the case and everybody is playing by ear...... good luck with that.

Does anyone tell you what key this song is in? And if so what does that mean to you. When they say the next song is "Kiss ole Sallie" what do you do?

Tell us that and I think we can help.

[cbass1]

Originally Posted by ridgeback

learn the vocal melody on the bass.

This is where it is at, you can always find a contra melody to guitar here. Think STP.

[Hookus]

Originally Posted by jokersdemise

One thing i can tell you is that the people i play with dont know theory, they just do it. So keys and all of that is alien tongue. i'll also look into how to play in key with the guitarist.

Hate to break it to you, but the answer to your question is practice. You guys should do yourselves a favor, and at least learn enough music theory to be able to know a scale from a chord name, and a chord from a certain scale. Not knowing any theory will pretty much hamper your ability to make your music sound the way you want, there are certainly exceptions, but the rule pretty much is that the more theory you know, the better you will be.

[notdavey]

I would suggest taking what he's given you then embelishing and adapting it to be the bass line. If it's just the roots of the chords he's playing, adding accents to counter and lock with the drummer. i.e. E-C-D three chord progression. Add some fifths E (b) - C (g) - D (a). Working in the octaves. But you should do this together and learn what he's playing and then apply some theory to it. Here's a decent 101: http://www.wikihow.com/Compose-a-Good-Bassline