"You are gonna sound like you, regardless"

[suraci]

I am sensing the truth of this, yet I want to develop a greater degree of TONAL variety.
Can a bass player change his "DNA" tonal stamp?
(I am a longtime pro, not a novice.)
I hope there is hope to change my "DNA"= genetic tonal stamp.
What elements in playing ( not gear, I would't imagine gear - strings etc, go deep enough ) are your choices for areas to investigate?
String height
how hard or soft
amp settings esp gain stage
what part of plucking finger makes contact Edit No one has yet addressed the relationship between volume of settings of amp pre amp and how hard you strike.

recording self to note differences- as you make changes?
?
Thanks

[Fergie Fulton]

Your style of playing is what really defines a player rather than any tone. Tone is a subjective thing with so many influences that anyone can change their tone, but their style is another thing'
"play it Jaco style" is more to his approach than any tone, as is "play it Pino style" or "Jamerson style". So i always look for players to improve their listening by tacking on new music they never concidered before. That is new music in the form of different genres and from different eras.

So if never done get some Latin music, or South African for example listen, learn and play. Don't just jump straight in but listen to it first, hear what is going on (and what's not going on ) and then learn it. But learn it by listening still, maybe pick up an instrument to help define what what you are hearing so you learning it better. That is learn all parts, not just the bass. Then once you have it all together, then play the bass part,now is the time to work out if what you learned was correct, put it together, refine and adapt it to be played.

This simple proccess changes your thinking and as such changes your approach to playing, and that will change your style in as much as how you approach playing.
For me rather than have a "Tone", players have a "sound"....almost like a voice accent is the way it is said as well as how it sounds, so it is with playing. Great actors can change their performance by simply taken on a new approach, so Sean Penn can not " be " Sean Penn in any role he takes on...but lets say Tom Cruise will always be Tom Cruise in most of what he takes on, and Sly Stallone will always be Sly Stallone in what he does.

[waleross]

+1 Very good Topic. IMO, touch (without a pick) can be the best way to get "your own sound". Too many want to get the sound from a pedal or an amp setting. Working on touch is most important as well as keeping the time together with the drums.

[MysticMichael]

I agree - an excellent topic.

Nearly all players who have been playing consistently for some length of time (i.e. five years at least), have at least begun to develop something of a signature sound - whether or not it is the sound one would have consciously and deliberately chosen. One might define this sound as the sum total of all one's listening and playing experience, influenced somewhat by environment, and filtered through one's personality, temperament, values, preferences and tastes.

So I wonder how much of one's signature sound is consciously developed - because it seems that a great deal of it occurs at a more spontaneous and automatic level, which is mostly subconscious. If so, this would suggest that your sound is an expression of who you really are (at least at a given moment in time) - not necessarily who you would prefer to be. Or prefer to sound like.

This would explain why pro musicians with a very well-developed sound always sound like who they are - and why it may be very difficult for them to ever sound like anybody else. Because ultimately the only way by which to change your sound, is to change who you are as a person. And that just doesn't happen overnight.

MM

[Psycho]

You can change your tone in a lot of different ways, though if I may ask: Why do you want to?

Regardless, how hard of softly you pluck can really make a difference, as can where you pluck. How many fingers do you use to pluck? And in what fashion? That also matters.

[suraci]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Your style of playing is what really defines a player rather than any tone. Tone is a subjective thing with so many influences that anyone can change their tone, but their style is another thing'
"play it Jaco style" is more to his approach than any tone, as is "play it Pino style" or "Jamerson style". So i always look for players to improve their listening by tacking on new music they never concidered before. That is new music in the form of different genres and from different eras.

So if never done get some Latin music, or South African for example listen, learn and play. Don't just jump straight in but listen to it first, hear what is going on (and what's not going on ) and then learn it. But learn it by listening still, maybe pick up an instrument to help define what what you are hearing so you learning it better. That is learn all parts, not just the bass. Then once you have it all together, then play the bass part,now is the time to work out if what you learned was correct, put it together, refine and adapt it to be played.

This simple proccess changes your thinking and as such changes your approach to playing, and that will change your style in as much as how you approach playing.
For me rather than have a "Tone", players have a "sound"....almost like a voice accent is the way it is said as well as how it sounds, so it is with playing. Great actors can change their performance by simply taken on a new approach, so Sean Penn can not " be " Sean Penn in any role he takes on...but lets say Tom Cruise will always be Tom Cruise in most of what he takes on, and Sly Stallone will always be Sly Stallone in what he does.

Hey Bud, leave my man Sly out of this, K? He is a way better actor than those other dudes!! Esp in Rambo !
Seriously, thank you for that unique perspective. And Penn destroys the other two actors!

[suraci]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

I agree - an excellent topic.

Nearly all players who have been playing consistently for some length of time (i.e. five years at least), have at least begun to develop something of a signature sound - whether or not it is the sound one would have consciously and deliberately chosen. One might define this sound as the sum total of all one's listening and playing experience, influenced somewhat by environment, and filtered through one's personality, temperament, values, preferences and tastes.

So I wonder how much of one's signature sound is consciously developed - because it seems that a great deal of it occurs at a more spontaneous and automatic level, which is mostly subconscious. If so, this would suggest that your sound is an expression of who you really are (at least at a given moment in time) - not necessarily who you would prefer to be. Or prefer to sound like.

This would explain why pro musicians with a very well-developed sound always sound like who they are - and why it may be very difficult for them to ever sound like anybody else. Because ultimately the only way by which to change your sound, is to change who you are as a person. And that just doesn't happen overnight.

MM

FF Brings up Sean Penn, as a rare example of a true chameleon. Most actors cannot do it. And some are so poor at this ability that say, Steven Segal just makes me admire Sean Penn all the more. Without genius like Penn, I might not realize what a hack at acting People like Seagal are.
Does this analogy hold in music?? FF mentions a players "sound" versus his "tone". I kind of follow that but not entirely so. It is indeed difficult to separate a "sound" from "tone", unless you have opportunity to hear 2 players playing the same music.

[suraci]

Originally Posted by Psycho

You can change your tone in a lot of different ways, though if I may ask: Why do you want to?

Regardless, how hard of softly you pluck can really make a difference, as can where you pluck. How many fingers do you use to pluck? And in what fashion? That also matters.

You are related to Alfred Hitchcock?
You bring up good points.
Why do I wish to do this? Because for one thing, I am tired of sounding the same old way on an open E or A string; my two favorite notes on a bass. It drives me crazy that my "conception" or technique, causes me to sound the same darn way. Variety in music, is very important.
I studied sax with the greatest teacher in the world- and he believed in tonal flexibility. For a sax player, having the ability to alter your sound from note to note.. even on the same note played twice or more, it is important to have this ability. maybe this is the true question... how do you practice altering your tone? In brass, you hit a note at all differnt dynamic levels pp to fff etc.
I really want the ability to consciously control how to sound very differntly from one moment to the next.

[suraci]

Originally Posted by Psycho

You can change your tone in a lot of different ways,

Regardless, how hard of softly you pluck can really make a difference, as can where you pluck. How many fingers do you use to pluck? And in what fashion? That also matters.

I use 2 fingers.
I am learning to play softer strikes on strings.. which leads to another question- VOLUME pedals that do NOT color the sound at all
WHen you ask... "what fashion", I have no idea what you refer to.
Thanks Psycho. Great questions, but stay away from my home!!

[suraci]

Originally Posted by waleross

+1 Very good Topic. IMO, touch (without a pick) can be the best way to get "your own sound". Too many want to get the sound from a pedal or an amp setting. Working on touch is most important as well as keeping the time together with the drums.

JIMMY: Ok, you got me... HOW to work on touch???

OT I asked Paul Jackson ( writer of Chameleon or co writer )
about playing with off time drummers... he very deliberately answered. basically like a Mack truck... you play right through them, with zero consideration for their piss poor time- I am 100% paraphrasing.

edit Another related factor the shape size of your hands. Paul Jackson has some of the largest fingers I have seen. I seems like a huge pad on your finger tips will give you a sound that is unattainable with a finger half or a third the size??? How can this be compensated for: my finger tips are above average in meatiness- so I thought of using thumb to compensate.

[EpiRipper]

Originally Posted by waleross

+1 Very good Topic. IMO, touch (without a pick) can be the best way to get "your own sound". Too many want to get the sound from a pedal or an amp setting. Working on touch is most important as well as keeping the time together with the drums.

I play with a pick 95% of the time, I sound like me. The other 5%, I play with fingers, I still sound like me. The way you play is the way you play. Touch is achievable with a pick, just as it is with fingers...

[Febs]

Originally Posted by suraci

JIMMY:

That's not Jimmy.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by suraci

FF Brings up Sean Penn, as a rare example of a true chameleon. Most actors cannot do it. And some are so poor at this ability that say, Steven Segal just makes me admire Sean Penn all the more. Without genius like Penn, I might not realize what a hack at acting People like Seagal are.
Does this analogy hold in music?? FF mentions a players "sound" versus his "tone". I kind of follow that but not entirely so. It is indeed difficult to separate a "sound" from "tone", unless you have opportunity to hear 2 players playing the same music.

What i am driving at is not a sound as in a single tone or a style or playing, but a combination of those and other things. Its about being the sum of more parts rather than just any one.
Its about the depth of what you can draw on to to give your playing more depth.
So with no amplifiers, or tone controls it is just down to how you hold, pluck, fret, etc. How you move from one note to the other, how you cross strings, and on what strings you play a note, or where on the string in relation to the bridge you pluck it.
Because our instrument as a rule is tuned in 4ths we have two option a note, so fretting a C on the 3rd fret A string may be a preference for some, or 8th fret E string may be a preference for others, but each will have a different timbre so will sound different. For example, apart from open E string, i was taught to consider open strings as the last resort in freting, never the first option. Open strings are a way of quickly moving around the instrument to reach other notes if need be. But an open string is just the result of the tuning, so change the tuning and we can change the timbre of the notes.

Again as said players can spend to much time on amps effects etc, rather than touch, feel, approach to playing, though process etc. One of the things player try to do is when using the fingers to make each note sound the same for each finger. I prefer to embrace these tonal differences, again it adds to the timbre of playing. If i wanted each note to sound the same then i would use a computer, sequencer, or synth bass to do so.....or the producer or engineer would and i'd be out of a job.

In the link is a video that was shot of me explaining some of the thinking behind the recording i did of the Little Walter song, Mellow Down Easy for the groovedoctors 1997 album, Crazy mixed up World. It just shows some of the thinking behind why i played it like i did.

Mellow Down Easy - YouTube

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by suraci

... how do you practice altering your tone?
...I really want the ability to consciously control how to sound very differntly from one moment to the next.

Pluck closer to the bridge to bring out more of the treble in the bass, this works very well for higher notes and for getting more mid range out of the instrument. This is all a matter of taste, and personal preference. If you are looking to quickly change the way you sound, try that.

My advice for practicing altering tone is to stop and play over lines you are familiar with in a different way. It could be the way I described, it could be something totally different. But changing up something familiar could be a great help in consciously making that change in "your sound".

[Russell L]

Grow your nails out a bit on your plucking hand and I GUARANTEE you will play differently, set you eq differently, and end up sounding totally like a different player. I'm not saying it's better, but just that it's an easy way to change without having to analyze it too much. Personally, I am also a guitar player, and I am especially good at fingerpicking on an acoustic. To do so I need my nails. Well, when it comes to playing bass, the nails are still there, always have been. I don't wanna lose them because I don't wanna stop using them on guitar. So, I have always had to accomodate them in my bass playing. It's just part of who I am as a bass player. If I trimmed them off, I'd be a different bass player. So, if you grow yours out some you will be different, too. You may find yourself pleasantly entertained at some of the sounds you get. Not only will it change your tone, but will also change how you articulate your notes. Plus, you can alter the sound depending on what angle you hold your hand, or where you pluck from.

Just an idea.

[GeoffT]

Don't just look at your right hand (if you play RH). IMO most of your personal style comes from how you articulate notes with your left hand. Slides, hammer-ons, pull-offs, bending, vibrato, legato, staccato, etc. Common fingering patterns will also tend to give you similar note choices that end up sounding like you, do you always start major chords/scales with your middle finger on the root? There will be subtle differences with how that sounds compared to starting the same line with your index or pinky on the root. As Fergie mentioned, having a favorite position on the neck for playing will influence your sound since the same notes sound slightly different on the different strings. You say that open E and A are your two favorite notes, that is one thing that contributes to your sound. I tend to favor fretting those notes since I can control the sound/tone so much more with my left hand (need a 5er for the low E).

[onosson]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

it seems that a great deal of it occurs at a more spontaneous and automatic level, which is mostly subconscious. If so, this would suggest that your sound is an expression of who you really are (at least at a given moment in time) - not necessarily who you would prefer to be. Or prefer to sound like.

This would explain why pro musicians with a very well-developed sound always sound like who they are - and why it may be very difficult for them to ever sound like anybody else. Because ultimately the only way by which to change your sound, is to change who you are as a person. And that just doesn't happen overnight.

MM

+1 and a whole lotta zeroes.

[suraci]

Originally Posted by GeoffT

Don't just look at your right hand (if you play RH). IMO most of your personal style comes from how you articulate notes with your left hand. Slides, hammer-ons, pull-offs, bending, vibrato, legato, staccato, etc. Common fingering patterns will also tend to give you similar note choices that end up sounding like you, do you always start major chords/scales with your middle finger on the root? There will be subtle differences with how that sounds compared to starting the same line with your index or pinky on the root. As Fergie mentioned, having a favorite position on the neck for playing will influence your sound since the same notes sound slightly different on the different strings. You say that open E and A are your two favorite notes, that is one thing that contributes to your sound. I tend to favor fretting those notes since I can control the sound/tone so much more with my left hand (need a 5er for the low E).

I am not aware of the left hand's (fretting ) influence on the tone-
I have dabbled at playing string bass ( in a purely do it for a gig way!)
And thus heard ( though never truly understood ) that the left hand is critically important in sound / tone. The presence of a fret seems to make left hand pressure or relationship to WHERE between the frets , barely a factor. But i am hoping I am wrong on this.

[GeoffT]

Originally Posted by suraci

I am not aware of the left hand's (fretting ) influence on the tone-
I have dabbled at playing string bass ( in a purely do it for a gig way!)
And thus heard ( though never truly understood ) that the left hand is critically important in sound / tone. The presence of a fret seems to make left hand pressure or relationship to WHERE between the frets , barely a factor. But i am hoping I am wrong on this.

If all you are concerned with is the tone, that is cool. Position within a single fret probably doesn't make a huge difference but which fret and string you use for the same note definitely has an effect on your tone, it is subtle but it is definitely there.

The title of the thread is about "sounding like you" IMO only some of this has to do with actual tone. That is why Wooten, Jaco, or Pino sound like they do playing any bass through any rig. While RH attack, location, and method (pick/fingers/slap) does play a part in that and is probably the biggest influence on the tone/attack side, I believe that what makes a guy sound like themselves is much more about how they articulate notes (slides, hammers, vibrato, etc.) with their LH and their favorite patterns/shapes they tend to use as their default playing positions. Common/favorite rhythmic patterns/motifs have a lot to do with this individual style too. It is the sum of all of these factors that make me recognize when I hear someone like Pino that it is him. I recognized that Bust a Move and You Ought to Know sounded a lot like Flea the first time I heard them, tone only played a small part in that.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by suraci

FF Brings up Sean Penn, as a rare example of a true chameleon. Most actors cannot do it. And some are so poor at this ability that say, Steven Segal just makes me admire Sean Penn all the more. Without genius like Penn, I might not realize what a hack at acting People like Seagal are.

Steven Segal is an actor??? Who knew?
Now, Keanu Reeves...there's an actor...

Originally Posted by suraci

Does this analogy hold in music?? FF mentions a players "sound" versus his "tone". I kind of follow that but not entirely so. It is indeed difficult to separate a "sound" from "tone", unless you have opportunity to hear 2 players playing the same music.

Fergie has already addressed this in a later post, but yeah, I can definitely see a distinction between "tone" and "sound". Tone is a subset of sound, with sound encompassing not only one's basic tone, but also one's playing style - which includes note choices, degree of articulation, "pad vs. tip" fretting technique, patterns of attack and/or release (release is a very under-rated factor, IMO), and much more.

MM