*OFF MARKET* FEELER: Value of old Kay?

jonesn4bass · #1 08-26-2009, 07:11 AM

Hey guys -

I acquired an old, pretty beat up, 3/4 size Kay about 8 years and I haven't been playing it too much recently. Times are tough and money is tight so I'm considering parting with it.

Admittedly I am more of an electric player, so I'm not even sure what specs are necessary to provide if I decide to sell it.

As I said, it is pretty worn. I think it spend a lot of its life, prior to my ownership, stored in a closet with no case. It sounds fine and is very playable but cosmetically it isn't too much of a looker!

Any insight/rough value ranges/anything would be appreciated. I'll try to get some photos of it up soon so you guys can see what I'm working with here. I'm not even positive I want to sell it, but it hasn't seen much action lately so I'm considering the possibility. I'm thinking $700 - $800 would be reasonable, but that could be way off for all I know!!

Thanks guys!

-Nick

gprigge · #2 08-26-2009, 07:34 AM

I bought a good 1949 M-1B two years ago for $900. Chipped and dinged, but a good player. That was the low-ball price, but they're out there. One on Minneapolis Craigs list a few months back kept dropping the price. I suspect it went for a bit over $1,000. Prices apparently vary by region, and greatly by condition. I've seen asking prices in the thousands for nice ones.
I luv my Kay.

Ed Fuqua · #3 08-26-2009, 09:22 AM

The thing that drives the price of basses is pretty much sound. If you have 16 basses in a room all priced at $1,500, the one that's gonna sell fastest is the one that sounds the best. The name Kay has some cachet, but it's still gonna be a hard sell if it doesn't sound better than all the other basses for the same price. If it doesn't sound better than basses priced at $2K, then it should be priced lower. If it sounds better than basses priced at $1K, it should be priced higher.

Other than sound, the market you're in is gonna determine price range. If you have a lot of people looking for very few instruments, prices will be higher than in areas where you have very few people looking at a lot of instruments.

Finally, the effect of state of repair on price will be pretty contingent on the above two conditions. If you have two basses that are priced the same and have the same quality of sound, then YES, generally people will gravitate to the bass that's in best repair. But if two basses are priced the same and one is significantly better sounding, even if it is in worse repair, people will be willing to money into having work done. Up to the point that the cost of the work + the cost of the bass DO NOT = more money than the repaired bass is worth.

Just FYI, I sold my early 60's Kay in the late 80's (early 90's?) through Dave Gage's shop in NYC on consignment and got $1300, which means they sold it for around $1600. And this is 18 to 20 years ago.

$7-800 would be a DEAL!

jonesn4bass · #4 08-26-2009, 10:45 AM

Thanks for the response! From the sounds of it I may be undervaluing it a bit. I'll do some thinking. If it has that much value maybe I should try to keep it and appreciate what I have.....

Thanks again!!

tomshepp · #5 08-26-2009, 01:39 PM

Look at the asking price on Jerry Fretwell's site. Granted, he's a dealer and folks go to him for Kays. Like Ed said, below $1000 is a good deal.
MHO

james condino · #6 08-26-2009, 06:04 PM

Ed summed up everything pretty well.

Here in Appalachia they seem to be the gold sandard for the old crusty banjo stomping crowd..... In the last three years, the cheapest I've purchased one was $450; it looked like it was run over by a train- basically a derelict semi-parts rig.

The best I've sold one for was $3600; it was a rock solid, fantastic setup that had a full restoration, new bassbar, all the seams sealed up, increased neck angle, carbon fiber beams and a 1/4" shim under the fingerboard, the perfect not too worn / not too new finish look, great fast playing buzz free , very low action, loud, sounded great ( for a Kay ), brand new strings, decent case, and had a 24 month bumper to bumper warranty from the best luthier in the area.

I don't think Jerry Fretwell's website is a realistic place for people to base the value of their Kay. I don't know Jerry and have not done any business with him, but the word on the streets around this area is that Jerry is a top notch retailer who moves a lot of product. He knows his stuff very well, has a large selection, generally does great work and setup on the inventory, as well as has a very good reputation in his field. If you buy one from him and it falls apart two weeks later, my guess is that he'll likely let you pick another off the racks and replace it. For someone who lacks all of that to look at his web site, see a 1947 Kay and think- yeah, that's just like mine- '47 and red, like Jerry's, so it is worth $3900...not going to happen.

Your individual market is a huge factor. I don't even try to sell carved basses in my area anymore because the old plywood fever is so strong that I can sell a dozen mediocre old Kays in the same time it would take me to move something like a nice sounding old carved Juzek for the same price.

I drove to the middle of nowhere rural America a while back and for $1700 drove back here with two nice old vintage Kays and another 40's fully carved Juzek stuffed in the back end of the old Subaru wagon...

I've had a few old fellows come by who are so used to thinking bass fiddle and hearing a dull plywood thunk, that when they actually pick up one that has volume, sonority, dynamic range, and a beautiful sustaining quality that resonates through your whole body, they look at me funny and say, "Sonny, that ain't what I play, I wanna bass." They are the same old folks that pay more money for the worst looking beat up finish...

Ed, give Nick that $800 for the bass and bring it back down to Dixie for a good weekend of gut strings and corn liquor....

j.

Ed Fuqua · #7 08-26-2009, 10:21 PM

Hey James, coming down to your neck of the woods in October; I'm trying to get a session hooked up with Bill Gerhardt and I might be looking to make borrowment of something thumpable....

james condino · #8 08-27-2009, 12:15 PM

Ed:

Consider it done; you can take the new girl out and slap her around for the night. Session with Bill??? Funny- I was doing surgery on another old Kay until the wee hours of last night and had to pass on playing at his place last night.

j.

**Francois Blais** · #9 08-27-2009, 12:47 PM

Note: I moved Walleye's off-topic post about his Kay's stringing to the Bluegrass forum where it belongs.
String advice for Kay bass

jonesn4bass · #10 09-01-2009, 11:30 AM

Hey Guys -

Sorry to disappear so long here but I finally got around to taking some photos of the bass. My house is too small to store the beast with all my other guitars (not to mention my fiance would KILL me!) so I've been keeping it at my parents house. I finally just had a chance to dig it out.

So, attached, you'll see some pics of overall condition, a couple big chips, and what appears to be a mended crack in the neck joing (its been there since I've owned it). Also, I don't know how to read Kay's serial numbers, but if any of you guys are into that, I have a photo of that as well.

As always, your input is much appreciated!!

-Nick

.............Ok, I'm not good at attachements apparently. Try the link:
http://www.vininghill.net/upright.html

jonesn4bass · #11 09-01-2009, 11:51 AM

I just found the Kay Serial number page (http://www.kaybass.com/KayHSerialNoList.htm) and apparently this guy is an S-1 model made in 1956. I knew it was old, but I wouldn't have guessed it was 53 years old!!

Ed Fuqua · #12 09-01-2009, 11:52 AM

serial number makes it a 56 or 57....

wineaux · #13 09-01-2009, 01:23 PM

Your bass is as old as I am -- but it's in a lot better shape.

jonesn4bass · #14 09-01-2009, 01:26 PM

hahaha. yeah, its more than double my age!

Riley R · #15 09-01-2009, 04:55 PM

Still available, any trades being considered?

jonesn4bass · #16 09-03-2009, 07:29 AM

Hey guys, thanks for all your help and input. I think, after learning a little bit more on the history of this bass, that I should probably hang onto it and maybe put some money into it to get the neck professionally done and have it setup a bit. The story of my possession of the bass is as follows:

As a Sophomore in high school (1999) playing electric bass for the band, I went in the storage closet of the band room and found this guy in the back with no strings, no case, and a crack in the neck. I approached the band director about it and asked if I could fix it up out of pocket and join the jazz band. He was reluctant at first (don't know why!) but allowed it. After playing it for 3 years and having a blast he approached me at graduation. He told me that the bass had been sitting in the closet as long as he had remember and no one ever cared for it. Since I had shown interest and motivation to learn to use it, he wanted me to take it with me upon graduating. Obviously, I did. I then played in a jazz band throughout college. After graduating I haven't had the chance to play it much, which is why I considered selling it.

Once I looked up the serial number and verified its age I told my parents about it. My mom went to the same high school, 25 years prior, and can remember there being an upright there at the time. Odds are pretty good that it was the same one! Kinda makes it a little hard to sell!

So, thanks for the input and info, but I think I need to hang on to this guy. Anyone know any good luthiers in the Western Massachuesetts/Connecticut/Albany area?

Thanks again,
Nick

**Francois Blais** · #17 09-03-2009, 08:30 AM

Do I understand that the bass is now off-market?

Regards,
François
DB Classifieds co-mod.

jonesn4bass · #18 09-03-2009, 08:45 AM

yup! thanks!