Hey fans of JMJ. Rich from Line 6 here.

[richrenken]

Hey Justin. I want to start a little thread to ask these guys some of the same things we talked about the other day. You can jump in eventually, but I would like to hear from these guys who love your thread.

As you guys know Justin uses various pieces of our gear. One of the pieces he digs and had big influence on was the Studio 110. He checked an LD150 (1x12) alpha unit out and was digging it and said to me, dude, if you put this into a little 1x10 non-ported light cube, you will kill. He was right. I have gigged on nothing but the Studio 110 since it came out. Live if it isn't enough I come out of the preamp out into the power amp of the rig at the club and bam, my tone. But a lot of gigs in smaller clubs, I put the amp in the corner and get enough and the room is filled by the DI to the board. Good times.

Here is my question to you guys. What could Line 6 do for the pro cats?
We came out with our initial foray into big amps. We have a bunch of killer players playing them now. Justin checked them out and gave me a bunch of killer insight and perspective. So I asked him if it would be cool to jump in and just let you guys help me to think out of the box. I have my own insights and perspectives on where we landed and I want to think of a future state for a pro level amp and cab. So I will hold back on some of what I would like to see so we can go free form here for a bit.

Think about all we can do because of the freedom of digital and let me know what you would like to see us do in the future for the pro player. I have a thick skin so do not be afraid to let me know what you think of the current line as well.

Peace, Rich

[bongomania]

Hi Rich,
I'm not a pro but I buy gear as if I was.

There is still room in the market for a true SVT-killer. Tech21 has gotten close, and of course you have some SVT modeling, but frankly Tech21 has not quite nailed it yet, and they are a few steps ahead of Line6 in that realm.

What some people do now is use a Tech21 VT-Bass pedal into a DI and then into their amp head, and of course the classic BDDI includes a DI. But if you were able to incorporate a better SVT emulation into an amp head that included a pro-quality transformer-based DI, and borrowing the power section concepts of the popular Markbass product line, you'd have a serious contender on the market.

I'm a big effects user; from a marketing perspective you should be aware that digital modeling effects are still sneered at by a large percentage of tone-conscious bassists. I know Line6 has made their bread and butter from modeling effects, but if you want your product to be thought of as a "serious, professional" bass amp, you'll leave off the banks of modeled effects that you might normally think of as an easy selling point. It would backfire on you here.

Compressors are my particular obsession. One thing I've found of all digital compressors I've tried (including your Tone Core Constrictor) is that they can mimic a lot of qualities of a good compressor, but they totally fail at peak limiting. If you incorporate a compressor into your amps, please for Pete's sake design it so that it is actually capable of peak limiting, and not just "theoretically" but under the actual duress of bass note abuse.

That's all I can think of right at the moment. I'll come back around later.

[richrenken]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Hi Rich,
I'm not a pro but I buy gear as if I was.

There is still room in the market for a true SVT-killer. Tech21 has gotten close, and of course you have some SVT modeling, but frankly Tech21 has not quite nailed it yet, and they are a few steps ahead of Line6 in that realm.

What some people do now is use a Tech21 VT-Bass pedal into a DI and then into their amp head, and of course the classic BDDI includes a DI. But if you were able to incorporate a better SVT emulation into an amp head that included a pro-quality transformer-based DI, and borrowing the power section concepts of the popular Markbass product line, you'd have a serious contender on the market.

I'm a big effects user; from a marketing perspective you should be aware that digital modeling effects are still sneered at by a large percentage of tone-conscious bassists. I know Line6 has made their bread and butter from modeling effects, but if you want your product to be thought of as a "serious, professional" bass amp, you'll leave off the banks of modeled effects that you might normally think of as an easy selling point. It would backfire on you here.

Compressors are my particular obsession. One thing I've found of all digital compressors I've tried (including your Tone Core Constrictor) is that they can mimic a lot of qualities of a good compressor, but they totally fail at peak limiting. If you incorporate a compressor into your amps, please for Pete's sake design it so that it is actually capable of peak limiting, and not just "theoretically" but under the actual duress of bass note abuse.

That's all I can think of right at the moment. I'll come back around later.

Thank you. good stuff, I did not mean to imply that the pro users were the only guys I want to hear from. I want to hear from anybody and everyone who wants to jump in.

I used a tube screamer into a BDDI into the front of my SVT for years. I have seen you guys posting about the new pedal, I need to check it out.

[kyral210]

Where do i start?

1/ Start taking notice of bass players. The support for the Bass pod was dire to say the least. A year for the vista driver? No support for using the bass pod with ANY of the other plug in software, no workbench support for the variax bass, no effects/ cab add on packs? The guitar pod gets all of this and more, but for the Bass Pod Xt there is nothing.

2/ More modern bass amps. Particularly modern metal bass amps. I want to have a modern metal crushing bass, not a 60's vintage. Ok, the vintage is great and I love it, but I would also love a modern amp.

3/ Duel speaker simulation. How about giving us the option to simulate a cab running a 4x10 and a 1x15 at the same time.

4/ Better effects quality. I love my Bass Pod Xt, I really can't use any of the overdrive effects. Why? they just don't sound good enough. I have my Boss ODB-3 at my feet for every gig because it just sounds so much better than any of the overdrive functions in the Pod. This is the reason why I don't want to go to Bass Pod Xt live, I just can't use it as a 'one stop shop'. Improve the effects sounds and then I can ditch my pedal board once and for all.

5/ This is not a bass thing, but sell the Pod Mount Feet in Europe. I had to get some ordered from Canada at $5 for the feet, $19 for the postage. I was very close to just buying another mount. Also, sell the mount with screws. I know I can go to the hardware store and buy the screws, but that is extra effort and I don't really know what to buy.

6/ This may be a little far fetched, but what about the option on the next bass Pod to have the DI jack as either DI or 'to studio desk'. I don't really want a Bass Pod Xt pro, I like the small one I can take anywhere, but it would be nice to send one feed to my amp for on stage monitoring and one feed to the desk for full simulation. This is probably not going to happen, but im taking the oppertuntity.


Thats about it. But above all please please please take care of us bassists and stop treating us like second class musicians. Maybe if that area of customer relations is improved the sale of bass equipment from line 6 would also go up.

Thanks for coming to the community to get insights, really apreciate the Wikinomics attitude.

Oh yeah, 7/ Make the next series of Pod's open source so we can tweek improve and innovate freely!

[jimmy rocket]

Rich,

I like the idea of the new HD400 and HD750. They definitely let people know that Line6 is serious about bass amplification.

I've never been a modeling guy, although I do appreciate the amp models at the front end of the aforementioned amps and I LOVE the Studio 110! What an amazing little tone monster. That brings me to my point. The Studio 110 fills a particular need for me, and it does it without a lot of the overkill (read banks of models and effects). It's light and powerful. It sounds great, and it's easy to dial in a good sound without the need to navigate what often becomes an obfuscating array of features.

Those extra "features" may attract a certain demographic but I think that many of us would rather follow the Okham's razor approach and have a simple interface with just enough controls to easily dial in a sound.

If you took the idea of the studio 110 and pulled the amp head out as a stand-alone lightweight head I bet you'd see plenty of the folks on this forum picking those up. It would give people the opportunity to take advantage of the features of that amp, but also to have the flexibility to run it with different speaker configurations (and not just models thereof).

[bongomania]

One dilemma bassists have been struggling with from the dawn of electric bass is how to get the tone of the amplifier into the PA. Add on to that the problem of needing specific EQ controls for dialing in a live stage sound while leaving the signal un-EQ'ed for the PA mix! There are many workarounds that people have developed over time, but it's still the sort of problem that requires workarounds.

Solution: make an amp which has its "tone qualities" (e.g. overdrive and amp modeling) pre-DI, and its EQ post-DI.

[MakiSupaStar]

My of my issues are in line with what bongo is saying. Poor digital compression, to the point that it's often a joke and wasted button that never gets pushed. Also exact same sound coming from the post as the pre. I shouldn't have to set up a mike in front of my cab in order to get my sound out to the house PA, nor should I burden the sound guy (whom often I don't know) with a line out, a di, and mike. Three channels for him to blend. Three times the opportunity for someone who doesn't care about my tone to f up my tone. If you simply made a unit that produces the same tone out the out hole, you'd have a leg up on a lot of the competition.

Effects and modeling. Personally, I'm a fan of tube warmth for my sound. I love the subtle dynamic and warmth it provides. A lot of pedal companies like are producing digital manipulation of tube sound (IIRC, the Octavius Squeeze is a good example of this). Line 6 has made their mark, and honed their product in the digital realm. I can't imagine how modeling pedal or unit with this type of configuration wouldn't kill. Line 6 digital technology + tube warmth = win. Perhaps you're already doing this. The reason I wouldn't know, is because of my love for tube, I have pretty much written off digital technology for my tone.

As far as a bass guitar with digital modeling, meh. I don't have much interest in this. Maybe for recording, but never in a live setting.

Recording. I've been curious about your interfaces, and I'm close to pulling the trigger on something like a 4 channel or 6 channel (if you make it). I've seen your tone port, and I like the idea that you guys provide amp models and bass models that I can patch into programs like Ableton Live. However, my biggest complaint about these units is the lack of basic sound shaping on the input. Your typical mixer channel has ability to shape sound with basic eq dials. I'm aware that you do this on the back end, but often when I'm listening to my tone before recording, I have to go in and adjust with the mouse (this is slow IMO). It would be great to have the headphones on, or the monitors running and be able to pluck and shape using some eq functions on the interface. I'd love to be able to plug in, adjust, and go. This is a small thing, but it if I saw unit like this I'd buy it.

[JimmyM]

Rich, the fact that Robert DeLeo says he uses a Pod XT on the road to cop the exact sound of his mic'ed Bassman studio rig says a lot about how much better digital has gotten. And I did a gig this weekend with a guitarist who used a Line 6 combo that sounded really good. So I think you guys are definitely on the right track with your products.

I would have no idea what to tell you to improve your products, because obviously they are a whole different realm than most and should be judged on their own merits. But my only deal with the Line 6 amps I've tried is that they try to be all things to everyone. There obviously is a market for it, but as a pro, I just need one really superb sound that can be treated as I need. I've heard a lot of really good sounds come out of them, but I'm looking for that one exceptionally great sound to build on, and to be honest, I haven't found it yet.

However, since modeling has come such a long way since the early days, I think it's a matter of time, so I'd just say keep trying to tweak and improve things and it will come.

I also agree with Maki about seeing about incorporating tubes. Personally, I think it would go a long way into increasing the realism of modeling.

[jaseOZ]

yeah bongomania said it good.

I don't want to have to lug around a 36kg head and 60kg cab so am loving the tech 21 VT bass pedal into a Radial JDI.
My Mark Bass amp is totally a stage monitor. Sometime a sound engineer will put a microphone in front of it...

But yeah, lugging gear to practice/gigs, I aim for lightest loads possible because I have to carry it all, on my own, up and down stairs. So for me, any little boxes that get near putting the sound of a tube Ampeg rig into the desk will be very appealing...obviously

[Joe Gress]

Make the line 6 4 series (DL4 MM4 DM4 FM4) a little more road worthy and stomp able.

[wishtheend]

here's my 2 cents

1) Tube Pre section - I think the Spider Valve series sounds very good for what it is, and it would be nice to see something like this on your bass gear. Keep it SS power section, but a nice tube pre (2-3 gain stages to get some tube distortion).

2) Don't load it with effects - I think for the most part that guys who use lots of effects already have the pedals, and like being able to mix and match. Just focus on just a high quality compressor and good overdrive (NOT fuzz, NOT distortion - the grit of a tube bass amp pushed hard - think SVT2/400+) and give a bit of control over the FX loop (series/parallel, wet/dry mix etc - effects only on particular channel (see below for 2nd channel input))

3) Don't model tons of amps - maybe just a few classics, but go for good tone on it's own. Think modern, think forward, don't recreate what's already there. Only have cab emu for DI POST pre output.

4) Parametric Mid and Graphic EQ - make graphic EQ footswitchable to use as a boost or 2nd channel OR

5) Footswitchable Overdrive or 2nd channel - in addition to making the overdrive on this thing growl, make it footswitchable, or give it it's own dirty channel. Separate gain/volume/EQ for the 2nd channel so we can tailor the sound a bit more for each tone.

6) Both passive and active PUP inputs - tuner output - HQ DI output (PRE preamp) - HQ DI output (POST preamp / cab emu?). Maybe make the cab emulation switchable.

6) Bi-amp output w/ sweepable crossover.

7) 4-channel footswitc: CHANNEL - GRAPHIC EQ - FX - MUTE

8) Rackmounted - nice sleek/classic look. Don't make it too flashy, or with too many LEDS. Chrome or Black, simple lay out. Powerful fan to keep it cool.

I'll come back to this later - my shift at work is over.

[SteveC]

We're just talking amps here, right? Line6 is dropping all Pods except the PodX3, correct?

Good sound in a small, light package. Currently - for me - Genz Benz is as good as it gets. It's small enough to carry anywhere, yet loud enough to use as on stand alone jazz gigs, musical theatre gigs and as a monitor with FOH support.

If you could make a combo like the GB Shuttle 3.0-10T (and all it's great features - mute, nice DI) with a built in tuner, compressor and 3-4 amp models, that would be great.

[ssbass]

Originally Posted by jimmy rocket

Rich,

I like the idea of the new HD400 and HD750. They definitely let people know that Line6 is serious about bass amplification.

I've never been a modeling guy, although I do appreciate the amp models at the front end of the aforementioned amps and I LOVE the Studio 110! What an amazing little tone monster. That brings me to my point. The Studio 110 fills a particular need for me, and it does it without a lot of the overkill (read banks of models and effects). It's light and powerful. It sounds great, and it's easy to dial in a good sound without the need to navigate what often becomes an obfuscating array of features.

Those extra "features" may attract a certain demographic but I think that many of us would rather follow the Okham's razor approach and have a simple interface with just enough controls to easily dial in a sound.

If you took the idea of the studio 110 and pulled the amp head out as a stand-alone lightweight head I bet you'd see plenty of the folks on this forum picking those up. It would give people the opportunity to take advantage of the features of that amp, but also to have the flexibility to run it with different speaker configurations (and not just models thereof).

I own the studio 110 and fully agree with this. I've been thinking about buying a Line 6 amp head.

[richrenken]

Hey guys, I am super busy today. I am heading out to film a LowDown user. I will get back to you guys later tonight. I am loving the ideas and perspectives you are sharing. Thank you so much.

The one thing I want to clarify. This is what can we do for Pro level big power heads and cabs in the future. That said, I enjoy all the comments about supporting bass players. I felt that too before I started working here. I am a gigging bass player and have gotten to do some pretty cool things. So I am hearing you loud and clear.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by richrenken

The one thing I want to clarify. This is what can we do for Pro level big power heads and cabs in the future.

I don't have much to say about that I guess. No big stages or tours for me. I'm an amateur level, low power combo guy.

[jimmy rocket]

Originally Posted by richrenken

The one thing I want to clarify. This is what can we do for Pro level big power heads and cabs in the future.

yes. pro-level, big power, and then stick it in a small package please.

[mattq]

this idea is WAY more fun than functional, but with all the millions of combinations of modelers onboard, how about a random button? amp, cab, up to three effects, and a mic randomly put together at the touch of a button. it'd be great for recording when you're uninspired by your usual tone and need a mental break from it. probably not a very cost effective idea though.

for pro level stuff, definitely start making your digital stuff as analog as possible. incorporate tubes if possible, maybe go the mosfet route in the power section. maybe narrow down and hone in on making a few more modelers sound much better rather than putting more models in. i definitely echo bongomania's svt-killer idea as well

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by jimmy rocket

yes. pro-level, big power, and then stick it in a small package please.

Yeah, and then Justin can goof on us again for being weight-wussies

EDIT: That was a joke. Justin never out and out goofed on us. But he definitely doesn't seem to care for the form factor. He's on the record of being more of a big transformer guy. I could dig seeing more new technology that keeps aspects of the old technology, too. How many times do you see a Pod being run into an SVT? There's a big market for light stuff, and it would probably make more money for a company like Line 6, but a well designed tube amp that sounded good on its own and had some Pod processing would be sweet. I just wonder if there would be a market for it enough to sustain the price they'd have to charge.

[jimmy rocket]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Yeah, and then Justin can goof on us again for being weight-wussies

Maybe, but I'm a grumpy old man in a young man's body, and I appreciate the portability.

That's probably because no one lugs it around for me anymore.

If I had a crew I'd run a wall of fridges.

[Szar]

Originally Posted by bongomania

One dilemma bassists have been struggling with from the dawn of electric bass is how to get the tone of the amplifier into the PA. Add on to that the problem of needing specific EQ controls for dialing in a live stage sound while leaving the signal un-EQ'ed for the PA mix! There are many workarounds that people have developed over time, but it's still the sort of problem that requires workarounds.

Solution: make an amp which has its "tone qualities" (e.g. overdrive and amp modeling) pre-DI, and its EQ post-DI.

THIS.