Seeking advice - XT Pro in an effects loop of an amp

Webtroll · #1 07-06-2010, 03:45 PM

Apologies for my weak search skills, but I was unable to find the answers due to common words and suchlike. Who knew you couldn't use the word "guitar" in a search? Anyhoo, I have a few questions for the experts and opinionated:

1- I would like a good rackmount overdrive/distortion modeler to use in the effects loop of a Boogie MPulse so that I wouldn't have to use extra pedals (I have pedals but work with me here) so I've been thinking of a rack mount XT Pro. Do these work well in an effects loop or do they need to be used as the preamp in order to take advantage of the effects?

2- I also play guitar for fun and have been told it would be better to buy a guitar unit and install a bass pack: Can guitar packs be added to the bass XT Pro? Any opinion regarding the "buy the guitar version" comment?

3- If I buy used the unit won't be registered in my name (and I have a couple of Line 6 items purchased new and used over the years); will this be a problem when purchasing add on packs?

4- If I have an item like a Guitar Port that I bought new and never registered, will it be hard to do so? What if I did register it and forgot (don't ask it happens pretty often to me... ooo shiney!)?

And if anyone read these questions but decided they didn't want to answer or don't have an opinion: Thank you for at least taking the time to read the questions!

For anyone who thinks the questions are retarded: Welcome to the intrawebs!

And for those who can shed some light on my questions and reply: Thanks in advance!

That is all.

cybersnyder · #2 07-07-2010, 07:51 AM

If you play guitar also, get an XT Pro, the guitar version and buy the Bass add-on pack. If you really like effects or like the idea of running two amp models at the same time, consider an X3 Live. Especially if you're going to buy all of the effects and amp add-on packs. They are already included in the X3 series. And before you dismiss two simultaneous modelers with bass consider that one can be an amp and the other a direct signal through a vintage channel strip. Good sounds can be had this way.

In my various experiments with the Line 6 modelers I found that I usually prefer bypassing the preamp of the amp and using the Line 6 modeling then running that into the effects return. Basically just using your head or combo as a standalone amp or powered cabinet. YMMV. Another plus to the X3 Live is that you can use the 4 cable method to get a lot more versatility from your amp/effects and the head that your using. This is used far more frequently for guitar than bass. The lowdown is that it lets you use your head's preamp section, put effects before or after the preamp and run that signal into your amp's power section.

If you buy used and the unit is already registered you'll need to email Line 6 support and they can transfer the serial number to your account. I believe it takes a few days to process the request.

If you bought it new, the Guitar Port should either be unregistered or registered under your account and it should be listed as one of your registered devices. Just give it a try.

Webtroll · #3 07-07-2010, 12:20 PM

Thanks for the reply! I'll look into the X3, but I'm not sure how appealling the dual modeling is going to be. One of the appeals of the XT is the dropping prices to be had; the sounds are cool but I still look at them as effects processors, not a preamp replacement. I would prefer to be able to switch it out of the signal path to bypass processing as an option which is why I'm thinkings about the effects loop. Also thanks for the heads up on the registration information!

cybersnyder · #4 07-07-2010, 05:20 PM

Are you familiar with the four cable method?

Webtroll · #5 07-07-2010, 05:28 PM

No, I thought you were referencing an X3 cabling method. I looked up your reference and found: http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-4742

In that I found:

Q: Can I run my POD/X3/xt/Pro/Live/Floor in an effect loop of an amplifier to use just the effects rather than the amp modeling?

A: Yes, it is possible to to run a POD as an effect unit in the effect loop of an amplifier. You may want to turn off the amp modeling or use as clean a sound as possible to avoid stacking preamps. You may also need to lower the “line level” signal of the amplifier's effect send output to "instrument level" to avoid potential damage to the input of your POD. Some POD units will have a pad switch that will accomplish this function. If your POD unit does not have an input pad switch, a device such as the Ebtech Line Level Shifter can be used to lower the line level if necessary. Below is the routing for this:

Guitar > Amp In / Amp FX Send> POD IN - POD Out > Amp FX Return. With this routing, you would have to bypass the amp modeling on the POD unit and use it for FX only, using your amp's own preamp section.

Thanks for the guidance, looks like very good information is out there if you know what to search for.

ridgeback · #6 07-07-2010, 05:32 PM

i find myself that anything thats gain driven( overdrive,distortion and so on) does not sound as well when put through an effects loop.

Webtroll · #7 07-07-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridgeback

i find myself that anything thats gain driven( overdrive,distortion and so on) does not sound as well when put through an effects loop.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Well pewp I may have to reconsider my strategy and go back to pedals. Good observation tho, I do thank you for your input.

There's a bass floor XT in the TB classifieds; can the guitar amp models be added to it or is the bass unit bass only? Any significant difference between it and the rack unit? Is it (gasp) true bypass?

cybersnyder · #8 07-07-2010, 09:12 PM

Bass unit only. No model packs for the Bass version.

Why I was suggesting the X3Live and the 4CM is that you can effectively place effects before your preamp and in the effects loop of your head unit. You can also switch out your head's preamp and use the built-in modeling or bypass the modeling in the X3 and use it for effects only. It's a very versatile setup.

Essentially you're putting the head's preamp in the X3's effect loop and then selecting where the head's preamp goes in the X3's digital signal path. That lets you put some of X3's effects before the head's preamp - something you can't do if it's completely in the effects loop of your head. You can also completely bypass your head's preamp.

I don't want to be a pain, but I think you missed the point of the 4CM and it's major benefit for using the X3Live with a head or combo that has an effects loop.

Q: What is the Four cable method? (POD X3 Live and Pro Only)
A: The “Four Cable” method (4CM) can be used for any effect unit that has an effects loop when connecting to an amplifier that has an effects loop (i.e. the POD X3 Live). This cabling method allows the end-user to place filters and overdrive units before the preamp section of the amplifier, and modulation and delay effects after the effect loop in the effect unit. This way the amplifier will provide the tones and the Line 6 device will provide the effects (pre and post). Be sure to enable the effects loop, and experiment with Pre-post effect to decide which method works best for you.

Instrument > X3Live guitar in
X3Live effect loop send > instrument input of amplifier
Amplifier effect loop send > X3Live effect loop return
X3 line output > Amplifier effect loop return.

Webtroll · #9 07-08-2010, 05:43 AM

Aye I missed it, will have to read more, thanks

* Actually thinking about ridgeback's comments I think this may be why I wasn't getting the drive I was expecting when I put my modded MB-1 in the loop. I may to revisit that and play with the level knobs on the back of the MPulse. If I can get the drive I want from that I can go back to messing with pedals; programmable and otherwise.

** After pricing the rackmount X3 units I'm pretty sure I'm not going to go that route. A couple of hundred to get a good grind tone some of the time is okay, $650 is out of what I would consider to be a reasonable price. Maybe if I was an effects addict, but I just want to be able to add a good overdrive/distortion some of the time.

steve_rolfeca · #10 07-08-2010, 10:29 AM

You might want to consider an XT Live, guitar version, with the bass amp pack. These days, they are pretty cheap used, and they give you nice foot control for your presets. Tons of nice guitar tones in there, as well.

A simplified way to "model" (pun intended) the 4-cable method, would be like this:

- cable from bass to POD input
- POD set for amp sim (cab sims turned off)
- Set up the effects patches you want on the POD
- cable from POD output to effects return on your amp

Assuming you use a bass head that's modelled in the POD (Aguilar, Marshall, SWR, SVT, etc.), you can dial in the drive, EQ, etc that you normally set up on your amp, in the virtual world of the POD.

Effectively, your signal chain would become bass > modelled version of your amp's front end > modelled effects > your amp's actual power stage > your cab.

You might like the effect of having the power amp and cab on your amp add a little "polish" to the XT's modelling...

Webtroll · #11 07-08-2010, 11:45 AM

Can the amp and cab simulations be turned off so it just runs as an effect unit? I like the tone of the Mesa preamp as is, plus having the knobs easily accessible is desireable.

cybersnyder · #12 07-08-2010, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webtroll

Can the amp and cab simulations be turned off so it just runs as an effect unit? I like the tone of the Mesa preamp as is, plus having the knobs easily accessible is desireable.

It can, but I'm not sure that an XT is what you want if you're looking for just an effects unit. Look into the M13 which can also use the 4CM. You can find them used here for decent prices.

Webtroll · #13 07-08-2010, 03:36 PM

Dear god the M13 is big enough to require it's own trailer!

cybersnyder · #14 07-08-2010, 05:03 PM

The XT Live you were looking at is 5 inches wider.

Webtroll · #15 07-08-2010, 05:45 PM

Seriously? Is it deeper too? Don't answer that, I'll look it up. This stuff is killing me; I have a bunch of pedals that I don't use more than one or 2 of at a time and if I put them together on a board and add one of these it's going to look like I have a boatload of effects when in truth I don't use a lot when I play. I can handle width okay as long as it's not too deep length wise.

By the way thanks for the wealth of information. My wallet may hate you but mind mind appreciates you very much!