compression

[christoph h.]

Hi Adam!

I have also asked this question in Justin Meldal-Johnsen's forum, but I'm also very interested in your thoughts about the following:

Do you think that people forget about the fact that a lot of bass-tones we hear are actually compressed, sometimes very heavily?

There's alot of discussion about how certain heroes get their tone, etc. but I think there's not much emphasis put on the fact that people like Nathan East, Will Lee, Lee Sklar, Neil Stubenhaus, even Anthony Jackson. Probably every "recorded" bass has been run through a compressor. If not at tracking, then almost certainly at mixdown. Then probably some more at mastering or at radio and TV-stations.

Even live at the "medium" to "big" gigs, the FOH guy will most of the time compress the bass.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about dynamic control and getting tone from the hands. I own a Demeter compressor pedal but have only used it very seldomly during recording.

But why aren't compressors more present at the "small gigs" through the personal amp and more recognized as a "fact of life" for getting a bass to sit in a mix? The "reference bass sound" we have in our head from listening to music is very likely a compressed sound.

So, any input on this question is welcome!

Thanks for your time!

-Christoph

[rodneyat]

Originally Posted by christoph h.

Even live at the "medium" to "big" gigs, the FOH guy will most of the time compress the bass.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about dynamic control and getting tone from the hands. I own a Demeter compressor pedal but have only used it very seldomly during recording.

But why aren't compressors more present at the "small gigs" through the personal amp and more recognized as a "fact of life" for getting a bass to sit in a mix? The "reference bass sound" we have in our head from listening to music is very likely a compressed sound.

-Christoph

I know this is a question for Adam and he will chime in with a much better sounding answer than mine. But, I figured I would relay my personal experience on this. I mainly play medium sized gigs with a decent PA for support or smaller gigs with minimal to no PA support. And I rarely ever record. That said, over the past year or so. I started ALWAYS using a compressor. Even in the smaller gigs...It thickens the sound and makes it sit in the mix very well. I still remember the first time I used it at my church. Which has an auditorium that fits about 1200 people or so and a good PA with subwoofers. We were doing our sound check and when I struck the first couple of notes. The leader whips his head around and looks at me and says "how did you get your bass to sound like that?" I knew I had made the right choice by using it. Even though the sound guy uses compression for the bass channel...even he commented on how good it sounded.

Now I will leave it for Adam to give the real answer.

[christoph h.]

Hey Rodney!

That's an interesting story! I will definitely try compression at some smaller gigs, too.
Did you use the TLC that's listed in your profile?

As far as I know, Adam runs through a pedal compressor, too, so it will be interesting to hear his input on this.

[Octavian]

I'll chime in as another interested party. I haven't used it yet in a live setting, so was curious to see if it 1) it is that helpful to enriching the sound and 2) if it is best achieved through adding another pedal to the board or through some sort of pre-amp device. I use a MB LMII.

[adamnitti]

hey folks- just now seeing this, but have to load the car right now for my gig tonight... will chime in with a reply late tonight or tomorrow morning...

[Stanley Pugh]

I have used compression at gigs for twenty years or more and really love the clarity it can bring out.
I have found if I cut out some of the real low frequencies and use compression moderately I can get a good sound anywhere that sits in the mix well.
The sound alone is not impressive, but with the band (where it counts) it sounds great.
Experiment with your settings and record practices and soon you will find some great settings.

[rodneyat]

Originally Posted by christoph h.

Hey Rodney!

That's an interesting story! I will definitely try compression at some smaller gigs, too.
Did you use the TLC that's listed in your profile?

As far as I know, Adam runs through a pedal compressor, too, so it will be interesting to hear his input on this.

Yes, I generally use the Aguilar TLC Compressor. For me, it is very easy to use and easy to get a good tone without a lot of fiddling. I am all about simplicity and the TLC does it for me. I had been using the Aphex Punch factory before and I just found that I had to work a lot harder to get a tone I liked. The Aggie does a great job for my needs.

[adamnitti]

hi christoph-

you are correct; the majority of real 'production-oriented' projects utilize compression on a significant number of the channels, and bass is rarely an exception. most of this is due to the need for leveling instruments for a more uniform balance of the transients in a mix, but in many cases compression is also used as a tool to shape tones. most engineers on a session will already have in their mind that they are going to run the bass through a compressor by default... the only thing that really bothers me about this is that some (less savvy) engineers don't take the time to even listen to the bass player's signal chain before going ahead and 'squashing' the bass with their favorite magical compressor and/or preamp for bass... what ends up happening is a real problem for the bass player who has spent days, months, or years tweaking his signal chain, because he plugs in, only to find that the tone he's hearing back through the monitors or headphones doesn't sound like the tone that he put in such a huge effort to get! i've been on sessions before where we have spent hours shaping my bass tone after it was run through the engineer's signal chain, only in an effort to get the bass back to sounding the way it did before i ever plugged in! quite annoying, but i have learned over the years to not be afraid to tell the engineer 'don't compression me', or 'i'm already compressing on my end', etc, etc... if you are confident in your tones, you sometimes need to be assertive and make sure the engineer knows what you want. now, what happens in the mixdown stage is usually out of your control, but at least you know that going to the board your tone is the way you envisioned it to be, and that it will at least feel familiar when you're hearing it on the session. on sessions, i will have a compressor at the very end of my signal chain before going to the board. these days i use either a tl audio tube compressor or my little aguilar tlc. i do not squash my signal with a super-high compression ratio. instead, i just try to tone-shape a little with them to try and get my tone to sound a little more fat and full. i also use them to tame the wider bandwidth of my active basses... live, i use the aguilar tlc near the end of my signal chain. once again, i don't do a lot of squashing, but instead try to balance the low/high transients a little more precisely. in answer to your question, i think a lot of bass players don't use them live maybe because they aren't as familiar with how to use them properly in order to help their tone be more present in the mix. a lot of bass players are used to the 'plug in and go with it' mentality, because the modern bass rigs are so dynamic already. it also helps to have a knowledge of the recording and mastering process so that you understand the role of compression and at what levels it is used...

Originally Posted by christoph h.

Hi Adam!

I have also asked this question in Justin Meldal-Johnsen's forum, but I'm also very interested in your thoughts about the following:

Do you think that people forget about the fact that a lot of bass-tones we hear are actually compressed, sometimes very heavily?

There's alot of discussion about how certain heroes get their tone, etc. but I think there's not much emphasis put on the fact that people like Nathan East, Will Lee, Lee Sklar, Neil Stubenhaus, even Anthony Jackson. Probably every "recorded" bass has been run through a compressor. If not at tracking, then almost certainly at mixdown. Then probably some more at mastering or at radio and TV-stations.

Even live at the "medium" to "big" gigs, the FOH guy will most of the time compress the bass.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about dynamic control and getting tone from the hands. I own a Demeter compressor pedal but have only used it very seldomly during recording.

But why aren't compressors more present at the "small gigs" through the personal amp and more recognized as a "fact of life" for getting a bass to sit in a mix? The "reference bass sound" we have in our head from listening to music is very likely a compressed sound.

So, any input on this question is welcome!

Thanks for your time!

-Christoph

[christoph h.]

Adam, thanks for the comprehensive answer!

[The Butler]

Adam,
That's cool to hear you use it at the end of your signal chain. I have always put it the start, right after my tuner. I will try it at the end.

+1 to the Aguilar TLC pedal. Great compression for a stomp box.

[adamnitti]

yeah, everyone has a different preference... really it's best to experiment with it in different parts of the chain to see what is giving the best results. a couple of my colleagues prefer to use it up front, as well. i like to use it after any 'tonal' or 'color' components, such as eqs, preamps, etc... i just like how it sits better that way for me.

Originally Posted by The Butler

Adam,
That's cool to hear you use it at the end of your signal chain. I have always put it the start, right after my tuner. I will try it at the end.

+1 to the Aguilar TLC pedal. Great compression for a stomp box.