Books for study - new student

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #1 07-01-2011, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffBTZ wrote

I'm just starting bass coming from a background with BG and I'm wondering what book(s) I should get to help me out. I have a teacher who lacks some proper technique and formal education in bass. (IE he doesn't use his pinkie correctly because of a childhood accident rendering it weaker than his other fingers.) We're going to be working on classical stuff and due to his background as a piano tuner and the fact that he has a degree in music education, I feel that he'll be able to make up for the lack of technique with help in theory and intonation.

Given this short background, can you suggest a book that I could work on with my instructor's help (though I'm guessing a decent portion would be on my own) that would help me become more competitive with someone who is say, formally trained by a professor of double bass?

I'm not expecting to be the principle bassist in the NY Phil, but it would be nice to be able to play jazz proficiently as well as orchestral music if the opportunity arose.

I look at this in two ways: etude/etude-ish books, and books of music. Simandl is the standard for beginning students, and it does a good job of covering a lot of basic ground. For music, there are many options, and i try to pick something that inspires the student that also is on the outer edges of their technique so it can help them grow. Personally, I almost always use something from Bach for my own studies as I don't think I will ever "master" it and it always leaves me with an enjoyable experience that helps me overcome a number of technical obstacles along the way.

waleross · #2 07-01-2011, 07:00 AM

How about the Ray Brown Book ? You'll find it fun and challenging at the same time. Its an old book now , so you'll have to search for it. Also Rufus Reed's String bass Books. Good luck .....................

JeffBTZ · #3 07-01-2011, 07:36 AM

Based on what you've said, would this Simandl book be a good place to start?

There are other books that I've found on amazon (including the one above for a lot cheaper) that are published using Simandl's name, but I'm not sure which would be the best.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #4 07-01-2011, 10:10 AM

That may be a great book, but I'm not familiar with it. I was thinking more of this one.

JeffBTZ · #5 07-01-2011, 10:37 AM

Ah. Ok, that was the one I was originally looking at, but then i saw the one with CDs and thought that didn't sound like a terrible idea. One more question... Should I get it in Japanese so I can learn another language at the same time? Haha

I'll try and order that book later today and I'll let you guys know how it goes

damonsmith · #6 07-01-2011, 05:06 PM

The Simandl New Method for double bass book 1 is going to be the method most familar to any teacher you find even if they teach another method. It is very standard and solid.
Most newer methods take that methods into account. While it does not cover everything, it does give you asolid, clear place to start. Ray Brown and Rufus are incredible players. Their books are great for any library of bass sheet music and methods but not what you need right now.

J. Montgomery · #7 07-01-2011, 09:06 PM

I'll add my $0.02 as a long time upright bassist (~15yr) and newbie upright student (few months). If its possible, I'd suggest trying to get a teacher that does have a formal background in upright bass technique.

My personal reason for wanting to start taking lessons recently was to improve my intonation and learn a proper bowing technique. Despite all my music training and theory knowledge on other instruments (mainly bass guitar & piano), my intonation was off due to bad fingerings. Theres a lot to be gained from learning a proper technique sooner rather than later.

I'm also using the Simandl book in my lessons. We spend ~3/4 of the lesson covering Simandl and bowing and the rest of the time on jazz theory (my personal interest).

JeffBTZ · #8 07-01-2011, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Montgomery

I'll add my $0.02 as a long time upright bassist (~15yr) and newbie upright student (few months). If its possible, I'd suggest trying to get a teacher that does have a formal background in upright bass technique.

My personal reason for wanting to start taking lessons recently was to improve my intonation and learn a proper bowing technique. Despite all my music training and theory knowledge on other instruments (mainly bass guitar & piano), my intonation was off due to bad fingerings. Theres a lot to be gained from learning a proper technique sooner rather than later.

I'm also using the Simandl book in my lessons. We spend ~3/4 of the lesson covering Simandl and bowing and the rest of the time on jazz theory (my personal interest).

Yes, I realize this, but you must understand that geographically, this is not possible. The nearest place I could find a formal teacher is about an hour to an hour and a half away. That might seem manageable, but the time isn't really there for me to do that right now. That means I would need to spend atleast 3 hours a day just on my bass lesson, along with about 50 dollars a lesson once I figure in gas money. My parents also aren't too keen on the idea of going that far for lessons. I'm already driving 30 minutes one way.

I'm not terribly worried about him teaching poor intonation, because he's a piano tuner with some form of perfect pitch (he might not be able to say what each note is, but he can tell when it isn't right, even if i'm off by a small value). I'm more concerned with learning correct technique and being able to get a good tone with a bow and then moving on to more complex classical and jazz music.

It's a bit off topic, but because it's still related to my early beginnings on bass, what would you guys suggest I do if I end up with the Simandl book and my instructor doesn't know what to do with it? That's sort of my biggest fear since he isn't formally instructed... I'm not sure what he meant by that. I do know that he didn't respond as if he had learned the technique, but he did know about the 1,2,4 fingering and we already went over some positions... Meh.

damonsmith · #9 07-01-2011, 10:58 PM

Get the Simandl book and try to get lessons once a month, every two months from the other guy. Maybe even think about a skype lesson or two.

JeffBTZ · #10 07-02-2011, 09:44 AM

I sent an email to a music professor at University of Toledo who plays DB. I asked if he knew anyone in the area that would be able to give a formal lesson based on the Simandl technique. The university is a bit far away (90+ minutes at the least), but perhaps he has a student or acquaintance who is closer or can meet halfway somewhere at a slightly higher cost.

Oh the joys of finding a teacher in podunk ohio.

J. Montgomery · #11 07-02-2011, 12:07 PM

I can definitely understand the commuting/lack of local teachers dilemma.

The Simandl book is fairly straightforward with regards to fingerings. Just take it slowly and absorb everything rather than trying to get through it quickly.

Anonymatt · #12 07-02-2011, 12:27 PM

My teacher and I are using a book called My First Simandl, which has a pretty nice progression of selections from New Method and 30 Etudes. It's a thin book, almost looks a little childish, and cost only $8 or so, but it's been 8 months and I'm not halfway through it. This is used with The Evolving Bassist's open string/rhythm exercises.

We go through this material very slowly. I spent a month on one page of Evolving Bassist. At the end of the first week, sure, I could play the exercise, but every week after that I was blown away by the new understandings I found with those bowing patterns.

How old are you? Are you mature enough to "teach yourself" if you have access to a good performer that is open to giving lessons but is not necessarily an experienced teacher?

JeffBTZ · #13 07-02-2011, 01:26 PM

I'm 17; a senior in high school. My current teacher performs in a few orchestra-type settings, but nothing too complex. I've taught myself BG and took lessons for guitar. Then I ended up liking bass more. I wouldn't say I've made myself an expert, but I could probably say I'm an inexperienced intermediate (as in I can play well enough to improv my own lines and don't have a problem holding down the rhythm)

I understand that DB is a bit trickier to teach yourself. Hence my search for a good instructor. If it came down to it, I think I COULD teach myself, but I probably wouldn't progress nearly as quickly or efficiently. Would you suggest this over a teacher who doesn't have the most sound technique?

David Potts · #14 07-03-2011, 02:20 AM

Assuming you are on the net, look up Andrew Anderson's ten short videos, hopefully still in Contrabass Conversations. Scroll down towards the bottom of the green Guest Column. Or just google Andrew Anderson. There are many other sites, including lots in You Tube, where you can see and analyse other players' techniques.

+1 for Simandl Tutor Book 1 for a systematic way of learning the fingerboard but it is not going to give you much help with technique, even for the most basic information about hand shapes and uses. The is where you need the support of a bass teacher. You don't need a lot of technical advice to get you started, and one or two extended sessions will cover a lot of ground. The suitability and set-up of your equipment could also be checked out. Can your bank account afford that much?

Other teachers here may suggest more books, eg Tom Gale's books, for self-help?

DP

JeffBTZ · #15 07-03-2011, 08:21 AM

I'm fairly certain that my bass is set up properly. I got it from Bass Cellar and they do a complete set up and throw in strings of your choice (Evah Pirazzi weichs in my case). It feels really easy to play to me.

Still waiting on a response from the music professor at The University of Toledo, so i'll see where that leads me

If that doesnt work out, maybe I'll look into a skype lesson. Not sure our internet is fast enough or if we have a good enough webcam, but it might be worth a shot.

Anonymatt · #16 07-05-2011, 12:04 AM

I was checking this out again... hey Jeff, even if that professor is kind of a long way away maybe you should just go out there one time for an introductory lesson? You know, even though it's kind of inconvenient, maybe it's something you can do to get the ball rolling a little bit, maybe give you some perspective. And if this guy checks you out and figures out what your situation really is, he might be able to help you out. Or maybe you'll both decide that meeting once a month or something is cool.

Maybe give the Skype thing a try in the meantime. It might not work for everybody or everything, but it probably works best for earnest students.

JeffBTZ · #17 07-05-2011, 06:42 PM

I've just gotten my book today. It's a bit annoying with the Japanese text on the same page, but I suppose I'll get used to it. I'm going to start going through some of the exercises on my own and see what I can figure out.

In other news, I've sent an email to one of the staff members of the Adrian (Michigan) symphony to see if they can hook me up with a contact about formal lessons, even if it's just one or two to get started. I didn't realize that town had a symphony or anything of the sort, so it's probably quite small-time. Either way, we'll see where that takes me.

Gale:

That book does indeed look to be useful. Perhaps I'll get it at some point to help with technique.

damonsmith · #18 07-07-2011, 09:15 AM

No offense to the esteemed Mr. Gale, but I suggest staying with the Simandl book until you get a teacher you trust, then use the method they teach out of. Later, it is best to amass as many methods as you can and see what is useful and different about each.

In America, Simandl is by far the most common method and no serious, professional teacher will be unfamiliar with it (they may have studied and teach out of another method, however).

JeffBTZ · #19 07-07-2011, 12:51 PM

That makes sense with the book. The last thing I want to do is confuse myself.

I heard back from the UT professor. He teaches the Simandl technique (coincidentally the same version/book I bought) in both jazz and classical settings. He also played in the Toledo symphony and was the principal bassist in the Adrian Symphony. He's only about 30-40 minutes away, too. I just need to discuss this with my parents. If they still think that's too far, I'll just start practicing bass at obscene hours and my parents will start to wish I was a lot better...

bobsax · #20 08-18-2011, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waleross

How about the Ray Brown Book ? You'll find it fun and challenging at the same time. Its an old book now , so you'll have to search for it. Also Rufus Reed's String bass Books. Good luck .....................

Does anybody have the Ray Brown book with the fingerings written in ? I just need the first few pages.
Does the Rufus Reed book have fingerings?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffBTZ

Based on what you've said, would this Simandl book be a good place to start?

There are other books that I've found on amazon (including the one above for a lot cheaper) that are published using Simandl's name, but I'm not sure which would be the best.

The Samandi has been public domain for quite some time (i think) and is available for free at Google.New method for the double bass ... - Google Books