Choosing a teacher

[Jeremy Darrow]

Jazzdogg said:

I'd like to see a thread that walks a prospective DB student through the process of selecting a qualified teacher.

What kinds of qualifications should they have? Credentials, life experience, teaching experience, etc.

What kinds of red flags should a prospective student be wary of?

What are some specific topics we should expect a qualified teacher to address, that might reveal an unqualified teacher?

How often should a student and teacher meet? For how long?


Thanks!

I'm going to start out of order here. These are far from complete answers.

First, I get the feeling that you're looking for a good teacher/bad teacher template and I don't think that it's that simple.

A student and teacher should meet as often as they decide that they need to. That could mean weekly, which is pretty common and provides enough time for the student to practice and absorb the material before the next meeting. If that's not possible, every other week can work too. With younger students though, you can lose a lot of ground over two weeks. With adult students, you can sometimes meet quite irregularly and still get a lot accomplished. In the case of a beginner of any age, you really should meet weekly. Good habits need to be established and reinforced frequently and bad habits need to be nipped in the bud. For kids, 30-45 minutes seems most productive for me. After that the attention usually, but not always, has faded to the point of diminishing returns. For older students, an hour is a good length, though you can go as long as teacher and student can stand it. I have had lessons that went on for two hours or more comfortably.

You should expect your teacher to be engaged with you in during your lessons (not their iPhone) , and address whatever issues they see in systematic, varied and persistent ways (If exercise #1 didn't solve the problem, maybe exercise #2 can.). They should be able to give you good answers to your specific questions, and be able and willing to do a little research if they don't have the answer at hand. I hesitate to say "A good teacher will do X, and a bad teacher will do Y." That's not they way that things work. A teacher may not be willing to discuss playing Cherokee in 12 keys if the student is unable to play a one octave "G" scale.

A good way to asses a teacher is get in there and take a few lessons. Figure out if the student and the teacher get along, and if they share a vision for where the student can go and how to get there. If, after a few months the student is not happy with their progress despite diligent practice, it might be a good idea to look for a new teacher. Understand that a bad fit does not necessarily mean a bad teacher. Also you can take a look at the teacher's other students. Are they succeeding in ways that you would like to?

I'm leaving plenty on the table, if someone else would like to jump in.

[damonsmith]

This is a tough one just asking for flames! I'd agree with what is above. I think we can learn from many bass players - an advanced classical player could learn some things from Barre Phillips and Patitucci studying with Thomas Martin in the middle of an advanced jazz career is an inspiring story.

However: for your early instrumental training it is important that the person you are paying stresses the bow and a proven classical method.
Being self-taught and playing pizz only works for some, but save your money if you want to take that road!

After you have a reasonable command of the instrument, if someone's music insprires you taking a lesson or even a few years of study about the particular things they specialize in can really help - in this category the teacher needn't even be a bassist.

[Jeremy Darrow]

It might make sense for us to step back, and say that where you want to go, personally and professionally, with your playing makes a big difference in teacher selection. For example, do you want to be a weekend jazz player, or a symphony pro? You would choose different teachers in each case, and have a VERY different relationship with them.

[MDEbass]

Jeff Weisner of the National Symphony and faculty at Peabody has a bass blog where he has a lot of good advice to consider regarding teachers, etc. http://peabodydoublebass.blogspot.co...label/teaching

[futurebass77]

my teacher seems to be all those types of teachers...i find that quite funny.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

A teacher should have something in their playing that you want for your own playing, and be able to show you how to get closer to that thing. Some teachers will be better at showing you conceptual ideas and trails to explore, some will be better at details of concrete technique, and some will be good at both. Obviously, the last type is the best, but the other kinds can be fine as well if you're progressing and learning something that's valuable to you.

[Heifetzbass]

IME- A really good teacher addresses posture and position first. It doesn't matter what level of player you are, there can be issues. A good teacher can see problems as well as hear them.

If you are a beginner and the first things out of their mouth isn't something about posture and position, then you need to re-think that teacher.

Priorities in my private lessons:
1. Posture- if this is bad, position will be affected. (Sitting or standing)
2. Position- correct left hand shape, correct bow grip.
3. Rhythm
4. Correct Pitches
5. Correct Intonation
6. Musical Issues (Mainly created by problems with the above technique)

Personal connections are important as well. It's kind of like a doctor's bedside manners. Some teachers you will form a deeper connection with, but it is always important for a teacher to be able to communicate clearly. If they can communicate and demonstrate you will be OK.

My $.02.
BG

[PsychoScout]

I took 2 teachers

one for jazz, one for classical

[jallenbass]

Originally Posted by Heifetzbass

IME- A really good teacher addresses posture and position first. It doesn't matter what level of player you are, there can be issues. A good teacher can see problems as well as hear them.

If you are a beginner and the first things out of their mouth isn't something about posture and position, then you need to re-think that teacher.

Priorities in my private lessons:
1. Posture- if this is bad, position will be affected. (Sitting or standing)
2. Position- correct left hand shape, correct bow grip.
3. Rhythm
4. Correct Pitches
5. Correct Intonation
6. Musical Issues (Mainly created by problems with the above technique)

Personal connections are important as well. It's kind of like a doctor's bedside manners. Some teachers you will form a deeper connection with, but it is always important for a teacher to be able to communicate clearly. If they can communicate and demonstrate you will be OK.

This is exactly what I would have said. If your playing gets easier through a physical approach (and you've applied that information) then that would be the first sign of a good teacher.

[Jeremy Darrow]

Originally Posted by Heifetzbass

Priorities in my private lessons:
1. Posture- if this is bad, position will be affected. (Sitting or standing)
2. Position- correct left hand shape, correct bow grip.
3. Rhythm
4. Correct Pitches
5. Correct Intonation
6. Musical Issues (Mainly created by problems with the above technique)


BG

I agree completely. I some times teach in the mirror, with the student standing in front of me so that they can see my position, and theirs at, the same time.

[rusag2]

Having had some formal training and experience in teaching (not on the DB or anything music related) I'll throw in my $0.02.

The first thing to do, I think, is to figure out what kind of student you are. How do you learn best...how do you think and absorb information best, what are your strengths as a student? Then, look around for a qualified individual to feed THAT.

Some people learn best alone, with books...others need a group and more experiential....others might do best by trial and error, discovering for themselves as they go.

The best teacher in the world for me might be a HORRIBLE fit for you. Remember, the instructor is only 1/2 of the instructor/student relationship.

Oh, and one more thing: being a great player doesn't mean you're a great teacher. They're very very different skills.

[Heifetzbass]

Originally Posted by rusag2

Having had some formal training and experience in teaching (not on the DB or anything music related) I'll throw in my $0.02.

The first thing to do, I think, is to figure out what kind of student you are. How do you learn best...how do you think and absorb information best, what are your strengths as a student? Then, look around for a qualified individual to feed THAT.

Some people learn best alone, with books...others need a group and more experiential....others might do best by trial and error, discovering for themselves as they go.

The best teacher in the world for me might be a HORRIBLE fit for you. Remember, the instructor is only 1/2 of the instructor/student relationship.

Oh, and one more thing: being a great player doesn't mean you're a great teacher. They're very very different skills.

Rusag2,

As a professional educator and teacher trainer, I would agree with you on most of your points. Each person has their own distinct learning style. It takes years and time before most students recognize what works for them. We teach new educators to vary their instructional techniques to hopefully catch the diversity of learning styles in the classroom setting.

If I read you correctly, you are really speaking about learning style and the personal interface between teacher and student. I agree that this is important, but I am speaking to someone that has never taken a private DB lesson. Their teacher must start with the basic position and posture. As they move down the steps toward musical issues they may find that a different teacher would help them understand music better, but they will never have correct posture and position going teacher-less. (At least 99% will not!)

Just let me be clear to all potential first-time bass students (or any musical instrument for that matter)-

Posture and postition come first. If your instructor does not address these issues first- get a new teacher!

Once these issues are addressed, then you can decide for yourself if you "like" your teacher, if they are giving you good, positive feedback, and you are getting your money's worth. If you are experiencing growth at a measurable rate and you sound better- then you are with a good teacher. If not, try somebody else.

Brian

[David Potts]

I would like to approach this topic from the would-be teacher side.

I would offer a free introduction lasting about the length of a lesson. The prospective student is welcome to bring someone with them.

The prospective student is given a chance to
(1) see where I live/teach and find ways to travel there
(2) meet me, see what I look like and hear my story
(3) tell me about themselves (as much as they choose to)
(4) explain what brought them to the Double Bass and what they hope to achieve
(5) gauge if they will feel comfortable being one-on-one in my studio during lessons
(6) ask questions, etc,etc, as the interview goes on.
(7) form an opinion about my suitability

I, as teacher, have a chance to
(1) eyeball the student and hear their story, including how they heard about me
(2) check out their height and build, including the size and suitability of their hands
(3) ask about previous musical experience, if any
(4) ask do they have an instrument or access to one
(5) ask where will they practice and how much time they are prepared to spend
(6) if they have a bass kit ask them to bring it along so you know what they are practicing on between lessons
(7) (for beginners) explain in simple terms how the bass, bow and fingerboard work
(8) ask if they have ever played the bass and would they like to have a go, teaching them "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" using six note names
(9) explain the learning process, the time it may take and my proposed methods of teaching
(10) explain about music and tutors needed - will they be bought, lent or photocopied?
(11) explain my self-imposed rules of conduct, (a) I will always tell them on arrival if they will be alone in the house with me (b) the studio door is never quite shut during lessons (c) the studio is a happy place in which I am never angry (d) to save lots of words, is sometimes touching them OK if I ask first before,say, guiding their bow arm movement or setting up their bow hold? (e)I will always give as much notice possible if I have to cancel and ask them to do the same (f) if I make myself available to teach at a certain time and they fail to show up then they owe me for the lesson, and if I stand them up their next lesson will be free!
(12) discuss length of lessons, how much I charge and proposed frequency

The final question I would ask is"do you want to go ahead and start lessons with me or do you need time to think about it?"

If they live far away from me and I know a closer suitable teacher, if they need a better teacher, if they are more jazz-oriented, or if they would prefer to learn from a woman, then I am happy to suggest names. I make it quite clear that I consider myself a first teacher of orchestral bass with the hope that they will end up playing in a group
one day.

Could a would-be student take what I have written as a basis for drawing up a list of questions to be satisfied when interviewing a prospective teacher or teachers?

Cheers......

DP

[Pcocobass]

Having read all of the above posts, I must say that I agree with the great advice offered here. But I would also stress, as some already have, that finding a teacher who can provide a student with a good foundation is paramount to these other issues for a beginner.

In my experience, this means starting out with classical training. Whether your goal is to play jazz, blues, rockabilly, or whatever, being classically trained (i.e., understanding positions, learning correct fingering and posture, and yes, using the bow) gives one a great advantage. In my opinion, this also means studying the oh-so-dry Simandl method. It's proven, and works great for teaching the best possible way to get around the bass.

As a jazz bassist, everyday I thank my first teacher, who insisted that I learn Simandl technique, and quite rigidly at that. I would not be the musician I am today without that solid and sure foundation.

[Jazzdogg]

Wow! I'm surprised I didn't see this thread sooner. Thanks to everyone who has posted. Lots to think about.

[Rocky]

As a new guy on the DB I'd like to say thanks to those who shared their advice on this thread.