Does electric bass fingering work on double bass? No.

[damonsmith]

Are there 4 finger methods for the double bass? Absolutely. Franke, Gale, New Dutch School, New American School and undoubtedly others.

They are generally considered advanced and built on as opposed to skipping over traditional double bass fingering. Even then it is not generally the best plan in the lower octaves.
Simandl is standard but other methods will get you there, too. The best plan is to get as many books as you can and check out all of them.


You really need to take a few months and focus on learning a whole new instrument.

[Jeremy Darrow]

I have seen one accomplished player OCCASIONALLY approach the transition area with a four-finger technique where he considers it appropriate. In the lower octaves he uses a more "traditional" fingering system.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Darrow

I have seen one accomplished player OCCASIONALLY approach the transition area with a four-finger technique where he considers it appropriate. In the lower octaves he uses a more "traditional" fingering system.

Of course, even then it is different than bass guitar fingering.

[Jeremy Darrow]

Originally Posted by damonsmith

Of course, even then it is different than bass guitar fingering.

Yes, it is.

[Les Fret]

Originally Posted by damonsmith

Are there 4 finger methods for the double bass? Absolutely. Franke, Gale, New Dutch School, New American School and undoubtedly others.

There is nothing new about this approach of course. Many players use (and have used) four fingers in middle/higher positions. You don't have to belong to any 'school' of playing for that.

I agree that a grounded three finger approach has to be learned first.

[chicagodoubler]

I agree about the rooting in solid 3 finger, but have you heard this Neils Henning fellow?

Apparently someone else has adopted this technique successfully:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7hkt1_Tp8w

Anyone aware if NHOP ever released any sort of formal pedagogy?

[buddyro57]

My first real bass teacher (Rusty Holloway/ UT Knoxville) is a great doubler- he advocated using Simandl for both instruments. I transitioned to that approach myself (from a finger-per-fret approach) and think that it works well. It makes sense to use the same fingerings for fretted, fretless, and DB. Of course, Simandl is slightly modified for electric, but the basic tenets apply.
JS

[timobee4]

I know one thing for sure! I don't play bass guitar but perhaps once or twice a year I play a bit of electric bass at some jam (usually after several alcoholic beverages) and my double bass fingering technique works pretty well on EB to the point when the electric players prefer to play the loose variety of percussion instruments. EB is so much fun but could never master their fingerings.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Bass guitar fingering patterns work just fine for double bass, but they are best played with different fingers on DB than on BG. Anyone who has absorbed the concept of different "box patterns" for various types of scales on guitar or BG will not have to abandon the concepts of the basic shapes as they relate to interval structures, but they will have to have a different concept of how to finger these patterns to have much chance of playing them in tune in various parts of the DB neck.

One concept I've had a lot of luck teaching with students is the notion of learning three basic major scale box patterns in thumb position (TP), where the four finger patterns can easily be transposed from a 1-2-3-4 fingering to a T-1-2-3 fingering. Once some fluency has been gained up in this position, the whole "across the neck" concept seems to flow more freely down lower on the neck, using pivots and shifts to reach the outside intervals of the boxes. As always, intonation is usually the major stumbling block, but I think the concept of the BG/Guitar-derived box relationship of the notes (kind of like musical chess) is very useful.

[damonsmith]

Yeah, there is a strong relationship between the two. I use my bass guitar to work out chordal ideas a lot because it does transfer. You do need to learn the fingering from scratch.
If you already play bass guitar and want to learn double bass you don't have to re-learn everything but you do have to re-learn everything!

[FMartin]

I do play pretty much in the same way I play electric bass guitar, 4 fingers, extended/normal/closed as I did on cello when I started, almost 30 years ago (my main bass has a 107cm string lenght), except for the lower positions and of course capotasto.

[Tom Gale]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Darrow

I have seen one accomplished player OCCASIONALLY approach the transition area with a four-finger technique where he considers it appropriate. In the lower octaves he uses a more "traditional" fingering system.

Just a quick review of fingerings. The 'closed hand' - 1,2,4 or Simandl, Zimmerman, etc. - was designed for the bass of the late 1800's and into the mid 1900's. Thick guts on G & D with thicker guts wound in metal on the A & E. To avoid the dreaded 'fingerboard buzz', the nut and bridge were much higher than now. The easiest way to play a note was to use all 4 fingers (1,2,4), next easiest was 1 & 2 and just 1 put the most strain on the left hand - esp. 1/2 and 1st pos. Check Simandl, etc. and you will see this very clearly.

Today, bass life is so much better and more musical due to all the modern strings and techs that are now available in addition to just the closed hand tech. 'Open hand', (1,2,3,4), 1/2 step pivoting, using the thumb positions above and below the octave, etc. More choices = More musical playing!
Tom Gale
ASODB.com

[FMartin]

By the way, by "extended/normal/closed" left hand I mean cello technique, Dotzauer method, using extension, contraction and thumb pivoting.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by FMartin

I do play pretty much in the same way I play electric bass guitar, 4 fingers, extended/normal/closed as I did on cello when I started, almost 30 years ago (my main bass has a 107cm string lenght), except for the lower positions and of course capotasto.

That is nice, as long as you have your own bass to play. Touring can so often mean borrowing an unfamiliar instrument.
While not by any means impossible those techniques should be used with care and are not suitable for all playing situations. Good examples being heavy pizz playing or ostinatos.

[FMartin]

Originally Posted by damonsmith

That is nice, as long as you have your own bass to play. Touring can so often mean borrowing an unfamiliar instrument.
While not by any means impossible those techniques should be used with care and are not suitable for all playing situations. Good examples being heavy pizz playing or ostinatos.

Not really, Damon (in my own experiece). While I rarely come across a bass longer than 108cm (42.5 inches) in string lenght for jazz work, all I need to do is some minor adjustment. Maybe going back to 1-2-4 half a tone upper than on my own bass, if I feel uncomfortable with the neck profile, for example.

I do realize it may be not everybody's easiest way (and I probably play that way only because it has to do with my own development on stringed instruments), but it is my easiest, by far, and I couldn't play jazz phrases (not doublebass jazz phrases) any other way, not to mention intonation.

I do use Tom Gale's books with students that feel inclined to try this way of playing, but that depends on each student. Most feel intimidated by this technique, unfortunately, and they just simply believe they couldn't do it.

But hey, to each his own.

[ChuckCorbisiero]

Originally Posted by FMartin

By the way, by "extended/normal/closed" left hand I mean cello technique, Dotzauer method, using extension, contraction and thumb pivoting.

Is this cello technique what Dr. Art Davis is referring to in his 4 finger system? My recollection is that he studied cello technique. Does anybody have his book?

[Tom Gale]

Originally Posted by ChuckCorbisiero

Is this cello technique what Dr. Art Davis is referring to in his 4 finger system? My recollection is that he studied cello technique. Does anybody have his book?

Art also played tuba but I never knew him to study cello. He was a senior when I was a soph in William Penn HS, Harrisburg, Pa.
Tom Gale

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by FMartin

By the way, by "extended/normal/closed" left hand I mean cello technique, Dotzauer method, using extension, contraction and thumb pivoting.

Which NOT electric bass technique as my original post points out. The thread has to do with the widespread mis-conception that bass guitarists can just play double bass the way they play bass guitar.

The thread is not about the fact that many double bassists make use of all four fingers.

[FMartin]

Ok, man

[ChuckCorbisiero]

Originally Posted by Tom Gale

Art also played tuba but I never knew him to study cello. He was a senior when I was a soph in William Penn HS, Harrisburg, Pa.
Tom Gale

In the Art Davis biography there is a mention of him studying with Laszlo Varga at the time he was at Manhattan School of Music. Who knows? Art Davis seemed like he could do anything. Probably not cello but he was fantastic. That's incredible. I didn't realize you went to the same high school as Art Davis. Wow. Thanks, Tom. Sorry to go OT Damon but Mr. Gale just blew my mind.