Questions and topic requests

[Chris Fitzgerald]

This thread is for non-teachers (or for those who do not wish to request permission to be considered a "teacher" for the purposes of this forum) to post questions or make requests for the resident teachers to start a thread about. Anyone is free to post, but remember that this is not a discussion thread per se, but rather a thread to suggest specific topics. Have at!

[Fletcher Lanning]

I broke the Pedagogy Forum's Cherry!

I would really like to hear the perspective of a primarily Jazz focused teacher on Simandl style shifting v Rabbath pivoting (or any other left-hand technique that they use that might be different).

[Darkstrike]

This one may be an odd question, to ask teachers, since it mainly deals with a lack of teachers, but here goes.

What advice would you have for someonw who wants to get into upright(or electric upright, as is my case), both pizz and arco, but doesn't have access to a teacher locally?

Any suggested reading, in books or links?
Basic advice and tips?
Warnings, perhaps?
Suggested listening?

[Erik V]

Being a long time lurker to DBTB, there is one issue that's come up consistently that I'd like to see some solid, backed up opinions on.

What should a player transcribe? Why should they transcribe? What should they shoot for achieving as they do this? What long term benefits come out of transcribing not available elsewhere?

I ask this because normally, you hear people who are absolutely adamant about transcribing being a normal part of double bass education, and there is no alternative. However, I recently had my first lesson with a big San Diego heavy-weight, Bob Magnusson, and he did not seem to hold the almost practice-session-over-whelming beliefs some hold about transcribing.

Thanks for your time!

[jojoUK]

Hi
my name is JO and I am UK based.
I am an adult learner of violin and double bass.
I started on violin 3 years ago and am at grade 5 (going by ABRSM standards), then I have taken up the double bass 8 months ago and my teacher would like me to take the grade 5 ABRSM exam soon.

I was surprised by how quickly I have learnt the double bass compared to the violin, is this because a lot of the skills are 'transferable' between the instruments? or is it because I am just 'better' at the double bass (by the way it's classical double bass I learn not jazz).

I have to say I don't practice regularly on the double bass, not because I don't like practicing but because the violin takes most of my time (I do 2 and a half hours a day on this).

what I would like teachers to discuss if possible please:
pros and cons of learning 2 different string instruments like violin and double bass.
If one learning one instrument does not practice much on the other, will they still progress on both as the skills are transferable/interchangeable? (sorry I hope I make myself understood)
I get the feeling I keep progressing the double bass because of all the practice I put into the violin (I practice bass about 3 to 4 times a week for 40 minutes or so vs violin daily for 2 and a half hours).

I find I have to play violin first followed by double bass if I practice both the same day as if I play on bass first then the violin feels so small I can't play it for the first half an hour!

Could learning these 2 instruments together cause any problems anywhere? (not sure what, just asking)
thank you in advance
Jo

[Darkstrike]

A question on technique.

Simandl, is it totally necessary, at the moment I'm having a real hard time re-programming my hands for it, as it were, and I can reach all the low notes easily, with finger-per-note style, am I ok, or am I asking for trouble later?

[bobknowsbass]

I really like the new forum!
Any advice/suggestions for moving into the thumb position? Is there a definite "transition point" i.e. octave of the open string or before/after? Any ways to get around intonation problems when you play in the higher register? Thanks!

[Jazzdogg]

I'd like to see a thread that walks a prospective DB student through the process of selecting a qualified teacher.

What kinds of qualifications should they have? Credentials, life experience, teaching experience, etc.

What kinds of red flags should a prospective student be wary of?

What are some specific topics we should expect a qualified teacher to address, that might reveal an unqualified teacher?

How often should a student and teacher meet? For how long?


Thanks!

[Jazzdogg]

I'd be very interested in seeing a thread comprising a list of recommended books, videos, websites, YouTube links, magazines, etc. organized by topic.

Thanks!

[MolluskGoneBad]

A few questions on student/teacher etiquette:

I'm an adult beginner (35) starting double bass this year. My teacher selection was somewhat haphazard, and I'm not sure it's a good fit. Before my DB was ready I took several electric bass lessons with the guy, and learned a fair amount re: chord/scale theory and so on. Now that we're on to fundamentals of double bass (5 lessons in), I'm not sure he's providing the proper level of guidance on basics like stance, positions, bow technique, etc. I feel like I really don't want to learn wrong and have to unlearn a ton of bad habits, and I have an instinct that there's no real instructional method being employed.

1) What would be a good sign or set of signs that I should continue or not continue with a particular teacher?

2) If I decide to move on to another teacher, what's the proper etiquette for finding a new one? Apart from his being a really nice guy, I don't want to damage any connections/burn any bridges.

[Erik V]

The Real Book!


What are the advantages/disadvantages? Why do some players swear by it while others scorn it as the "lazy way out"?

[David Potts]

Hi guys

As a long time teacher of beginners on orchestral bass I also receive lots of enquiries about lessons from older people whose first interest is jazz. My advice is generally the same as yours - have a good basic technical grounding, including using the bow, from a teacher of orchestral bass. They often find later that they quite like playing classical music in an amateur orchestra. I also offer them the alternate possibility of approaching some jazz colleagues of mine whose teaching, including use of the bow, I can recommend.

There are now quite a lot of self-help, teach-yourself jazz books in catalogues such Lemur Music's. Which ones in order of preference would you say are worth recommending to students in parallel with the Simandl we love/hate so much?

DP

[Paul Warburton]

My 2 cents.

http://www.amazon.com/Walking-Bassic.../dp/1883217504

[FMartin]

I've learnt what the multi-quote thing is for!

Originally Posted by Darkstrike

This one may be an odd question, to ask teachers, since it mainly deals with a lack of teachers, but here goes.

What advice would you have for someonw who wants to get into upright(or electric upright, as is my case), both pizz and arco, but doesn't have access to a teacher locally?

Any suggested reading, in books or links?
Basic advice and tips?
Warnings, perhaps?
Suggested listening?

There are many questions in your post, but the most important thing I can think of to say to you is this: go for it, and don't think you can't do it without a teacher in town! You'll get real help and guidance from other musicians (non bass players), recordings, videos, etc.
Maybe if you are more clear about you musical goals more TB fellows could recommend specific recordings, books, videos.

Originally Posted by Erik V

What should a player transcribe? Why should they transcribe? What should they shoot for achieving as they do this? What long term benefits come out of transcribing not available elsewhere?

I ask this because normally, you hear people who are absolutely adamant about transcribing being a normal part of double bass education, and there is no alternative. However, I recently had my first lesson with a big San Diego heavy-weight, Bob Magnusson, and he did not seem to hold the almost practice-session-over-whelming beliefs some hold about transcribing.

Thanks for your time!

First of all: lucky you! Bob M. is a terrific player.
I'm not one of the adamant transcribers you mentioned. I am adamant regarding other practice: careful, deep, inquisitive music listening.

Originally Posted by Darkstrike

A question on technique.

Simandl, is it totally necessary, at the moment I'm having a real hard time re-programming my hands for it, as it were, and I can reach all the low notes easily, with finger-per-note style, am I ok, or am I asking for trouble later?

To your first question, my answer is no, it's not totally necessary. There are other methods and ways. As for your second one, I think you should contact Tom Gale.

Originally Posted by MolluskGoneBad

A few questions on student/teacher etiquette:

I'm an adult beginner (35) starting double bass this year. My teacher selection was somewhat haphazard, and I'm not sure it's a good fit. Before my DB was ready I took several electric bass lessons with the guy, and learned a fair amount re: chord/scale theory and so on. Now that we're on to fundamentals of double bass (5 lessons in), I'm not sure he's providing the proper level of guidance on basics like stance, positions, bow technique, etc. I feel like I really don't want to learn wrong and have to unlearn a ton of bad habits, and I have an instinct that there's no real instructional method being employed.

1) What would be a good sign or set of signs that I should continue or not continue with a particular teacher?

2) If I decide to move on to another teacher, what's the proper etiquette for finding a new one? Apart from his being a really nice guy, I don't want to damage any connections/burn any bridges.

If you take a look at videos of, say, 12 top players, you'll find lots of differences regarding stance, bowing, etc. Maybe more so in jazz (as right hand differences can sometimes be more noticeable than bowing differences). So maybe he's trying to not impose you his particular approach. I try to not impose mine to my students. Although maybe he should, if that's the case, do tell you so, and perhaps show you different approaches (even through the use of videos), so you know they exist, and maybe you can explore them to see if they can work for you to some extent.

[Paul Warburton]

Fabian learned the multi-quote feature!
I agree on all points, BTW.

[jallenbass]

Originally Posted by MolluskGoneBad

AI'm not sure he's providing the proper level of guidance on basics like stance, positions, bow technique, etc. I feel like I really don't want to learn wrong and have to unlearn a ton of bad habits, and I have an instinct that there's no real instructional method being employed.

1) What would be a good sign or set of signs that I should continue or not continue with a particular teacher?

With regards to the physical approach to the bass: Once you get over the initial stumbling when learning something new you should notice a marked improvement in your comfort with the instrument, agility and sound in a short period of time. This assumes that you are physically able and actually applying what you have been taught.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by jallenbass

With regards to the physical approach to the bass: Once you get over the initial stumbling when learning something new you should notice a marked improvement in your comfort with the instrument, agility and sound in a short period of time. This assumes that you are physically able and actually applying what you have been taught.

I always remember the first time I held a baby. Man, that was weird. Then I got used to it. Same deal.

[jallenbass]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

I always remember the first time I held a baby. Man, that was weird. Then I got used to it. Same deal.

Great analogy Paul! I can't think of a better way to describe it.

[David Potts]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

This thread is for non-teachers (or for those who do not wish to request permission to be considered a "teacher" for the purposes of this forum) to post questions or make requests for the resident teachers to start a thread about. Anyone is free to post, but remember that this is not a discussion thread per se, but rather a thread to suggest specific topics. Have at!

Sorry to be a kill-joy.

DP

[giallo]

I am a 35-year old double bassist (french bow, exclusively classical). I played throughout high-school, took an extended break from the instrument, and in the last three years have been working my chops back up. I am largely self-taught, though I have been working for the last two years on Simandl (Book I) with a prominent teacher in the New York area in order to focus on fundamentals (both left- and right-hand technique, bow distribution, proper fingering, etc.). My self-assessment is that I am talented---or at least I think I have the raw materials---I work extremely hard at it, but I need a lot of work on the basics. Further - as crazy as this may sound for a 35-year old to say, I have hopes of auditioning for a prominent conservatory in the coming year. I really would like to make a go at it.

My teacher is excellent (and an all around terrific guy), but I have recently become concerned that we may be focusing on areas that, while incredibly pedagogically worthwhile, not exactly what I am looking for. Firstly, he plays German bow, so we barely focus on proper grip. Secondly, we predominantly focus on interpretation (phrasing, articulation, approach), and very little on technique (fingerings, proper bow hold). I'm incredibly grateful for what I have learned from this teacher---he is an excellent player and extremely passionate---but I feel that I may be better served by someone with a slightly different focus, or possibly a combination of a new teacher focused on fundamentals, and continuing with my current teacher on interpretation.

I'm sure this is evident, but I am conflicted by my impression that he is the wrong teacher. I have learned a great deal, but I am lacking confidence about the basics, and I just don't have the sense (after two years of working with him) that this is ever going to be this particular teacher's focus. What he is teaching me eventually works around to the basics, but it's been a very alinear approach.

So... If the consensus is that I should in fact look elsewhere, I am wondering if someone can make recommendations for a teacher in New York with a strong classical background who excels in the areas I describe above, and who has a good reputation and, given my aspirations, a track-record of conservatory placement for students. Let's say that money is not the primary concern. I am on a budget, but I don't want that factor to limit responses.

Also, I would love some opinions on "the right time" to work with a really heavy teacher.... For example, if I'm not through Simandl I, and I don't sound very "clean", and were to take a lesson with Tim Cobb, would I make a poor impression and hurt my chances of attending a conservatory at which he teaches ? I'm not sure if this is a factor about which I should be concerned.

Finally---to the moderators and those interested---I have not filled out my profile as I know that my current teacher from time to time reads these boards and I do not want to offend.

Thanks very much in advance.