Rabbath as a main technique?

[MK1]

It's been about 8 years since I've seriously studied DB, and I'm looking to get back into it. I've decided to go back to school to finish my degree and that is going to require that I take quite a few gen eds (go figure, credits from a recording degree don't transfer well to other schools). I'm going to start my first couple years at the local community college, and I would like to play as much as possible in school. I will have to do quite a bit of brushing up to get back to where I can play in an Ensemble. I originally studied Simandl and was planning on picking up the New Method for the Double Bass again, but after doing some research here I've discovered the Rabbath method. From what I've seen this method seems to make sense to me. Is this a technique I could adopt as my main technique or should I continue to study Simandl and simply use Rabbath as a supplement? If it is recommended where can I get a hold of A New Technique Contrabass. I also wasn't sure where to post this, so if there is a better place for my question please point me to the correct section and I will close this thread and move it to the appropriate section. Thanks all.

[Eric Hochberg]

It sure has served Mr. Rabbath well! My suggestion is to talk with a teacher familiar with the method and get their view. Contact Hans Sturm at Ball State. He's on this board, too. He may be willing to give you some advice.

I see you posted in the Jazz Tech forum. Are you planning on playing jazz, classical or both? For jazz playing, you might stick with Simandl for now as the Simandl method has a lot of use for hard, demanding jazz bass playing where a lot of endurance is required. Damon Smith has posted a lot on this subject and I think he makes a lot of sense, so do a search.

This should probably be moved to the Pedagogy Forum.

[MK1]

I'm planning on playing both. I play EB now for the occasional jazz gig, but I also receive the occasional request to play DB. I have much more opportunity to play jazz, and that will also be my main focus.

As far as the pedagogy forum I thought you could only post there if you are an educator.

[JtheJazzMan]

The Rabbath method helped me to look beyond the Simandl 3 finger position system, and think about position more like an electric bass 4 finger system.

Plus with the bent endpin I can actually use thumb position down into the lower portions of the neck, which is great for dense horn-like jazz lines.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by MK1

As far as the pedagogy forum I thought you could only post there if you are an educator.

You can pose your question there. PM Chris Fitzgerald and he'll take care of it.

[William Hoffman]

Originally Posted by MK1

...If it is recommended where can I get a hold of A New Technique Contrabass...

i've been working with Simandl but after looking into it want to try Rabbath's Nouvelle Technique. i don't think you can know whether or not you want to really go for it until you try it.

got the three volume set of Rabbath's Nouvelle Technique from Slava Publishing. http://www.slavapub.net/Sheet_Music-Rabbath_Method.html

[Herbie 80's]

If I were you, I'd stick with Simandl and then move onto Rabbath. Simandl has been the basis for many years for a reason. There's no reason that you can't learn both and use them together.

[Mike Goodbar]

You might want to check out Mark Morton's Simandl-Plus method at American School of Double Bass ASODB.com. I personally have never studied it, but apparently it combines the Simandl "closed-hand" method with the Rabbath-esque (though he does not mention Rabbath) "open-hand" technique and describes when best to use them.

I've been using the George Vance method (which does specifically employ Rabbath methods) with great success for some of my students, particularly those who are coming over from bass guitar. Of course, Uncle Franz is always at the ready, though I don't take students through the entire book -- just etudes that I feel help address issues or playing situations.

[damonsmith]

I might post more later, but I don't think ANY method is enough to cover all the modern playing situations. Your "main" technique should include all the things it takes to get your music played well. Unless you are starting a one person Rabbath cover band, you are likely going to need more than that.

Ignoring Rabbath is poor option as well. Most methods have very useful ideas not covered by the others. Make your self aware of as many as possible.

[Tom Gale]

[quote=Mike Goodbar;10413557]You might want to check out Mark Morton's Simandl-Plus method at American School of Double Bass ASODB.com. I personally have never studied it, but apparently it combines the Simandl "closed-hand" method with the Rabbath-esque (though he does not mention Rabbath) "open-hand" technique and describes when best to use them.


The ASODB material covers the closed hand (Simandl) or 3 finger tech, open hand or 4 finger tech, thumb positions above AND below the octave and includes 1/2 step pivoting both up and down. By having all these tools at your fingertips (literarily!), you can meet any musical challenge. My last book covers all the above. Sorry - but I'm not allowed to give you the name but you can always send me a message.
Tom Gale

[MK1]

What are some other methods that are worth looking into? Up until recently I was only familiar with Simandl and Rufus Reid (Reid to a lesser extent), because that is all that was shown to me. I have no doubt, now that I am going to own my first bass, I will be a life long student, but I'm just trying to absorb as much as possible. As always this forum is a valuable resource.
Cheers,
Matt

[Les Fret]

Originally Posted by Tom Gale

The ASODB material covers the closed hand (Simandl) or 3 finger tech, open hand or 4 finger tech, thumb positions above AND below the octave and includes 1/2 step pivoting both up and down. By having all these tools at your fingertips (literarily!), you can meet any musical challenge. My last book covers all the above. Sorry - but I'm not allowed to give you the name but you can always send me a message.
Tom Gale

I think this mixing of different techniques is pretty standard with today's bass players, yet they don't necessarily belong to any 'school'.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by MK1

What are some other methods that are worth looking into? Up until recently I was only familiar with Simandl and Rufus Reid (Reid to a lesser extent), because that is all that was shown to me. I have no doubt, now that I am going to own my first bass, I will be a life long student, but I'm just trying to absorb as much as possible. As always this forum is a valuable resource.
Cheers,
Matt

I have gotten the most from Simandl, Petracchi and Rabbath. Billie is great to play out of, but is fairly equal to Simandl. I have not come across any affordable copies of the Nanny volumes but I would like to.

I think a crucial difference is that Rabbath is just more involved. The best results in terms of technique from the Rabbath school are the real hardcores who get with Rabbath himself or one of the real close masters of that method like Sturm, Neher or Ellison. If you go do a serious study with guys like that for several years you will sound great.

When people try to use it as a basic foundation and then get on to playing it just doesn't seem as stable as Simandl. As Eric mentioned, for rigorous acoustic jazz playing I think the pivots (or 4 finger "open hand" techniques) can be dangerous and should be used with care - maybe here or there in a solo or head, not walking all night with no amp.
The amp and lower action changes things and of course by now there are MANY students of the Rabbath method who play beautifully.

[MK1]

Originally Posted by damonsmith

I think the pivots (or 4 finger "open hand" techniques) can be dangerous and should be used with care - maybe here or there in a solo, not walking all night with no amp.
The amp and lower action changes things and of course by now there are MANY students of the Rabbath method who play beautifully.

Are you saying this method is dangerous because of the possibility of injury? I'm not sure why amplification would make a difference with this technique. Would amplification have more of an impact on the right hand?

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by MK1

Are you saying this method is dangerous because of the possibility of injury? I'm not sure why amplification would make a difference with this technique. Would amplification have more of an impact on the right hand?

Playing amplified or not has an impact on both hands. No matter how you make it happen, playing acoustic with enough volume for performance takes quite a bit of force. Proper technique and good intonation help minimize strain, but the instrument won't play itself no matter what method you study.

The point is just that using a pivot or other left hand extention to play a line by Bach vs. a pizzicato sound like Wilbur Ware are very different things.

Rabbath's method is related to his music - while it is extremely useful for other music, it is wise to find out what methods the players who play similar to the way you want to play used.

[dsamudio]

If you are interested in the Rabbath method, I would suggest that you watch the seven part video of Rabbath on Youtube.

Here is part one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy-03jH_mrE

Rabbath's story of learning bass has a lot of similarities to Victor Wooten and his philosophy for teaching is very close to Suzuki’s. Once you understand Rabbath’s history, approach and philosophy you will get much more out of the method books. The recordings of Rabbath playing the etudes are fantastic. I remember first hearing the Divertimento No. 1 in C Major on page 5 of book one and thinking, “How simple. How musical.” and most importantly, thanks to the videos, “I can do that.” Rabbath treats even the simplest melody with great respect and focuses all his 60 plus years of musical experience on theses beginner pieces. If you are going to use this method, get the CD versions.

My experience using the Rabbath book 1

Let me start off by saying that my goals and my pace will be different than yours and that what I am doing should in no way be taken as some sort of bench mark or time table.

I have been playing in professional orchestras for 20 years. I have been principal for one of these orchestras for the past 14 years. Playing bass is not my full time occupation. This is the second time I have gone back to square one to improve my playing and I think that every musician should do so once every 5 to 10 years. This gives the musician a chance to focus all of his accumulated musical knowledge and skill on the very basics of playing without having to think about what finger goes where or what is that note/pattern. It also gives you a chance to clean up any nasty little habits that have crept into your playing technique.

My goals were to make every note I played musical. Every open sting, every string crossing, every slur, and every interval and to memorize the etudes like Suzuki students do (One of the things Suzuki would do when a full time orchestral player would visit him for a lesson, would be to work on creating the most musical note played on an open string). I work in front of a mirror to correct some bow issues that had crept into my playing. I really focused on the starting of notes and used a tuner to nail down my pitch. I took me about 6 weeks to get to page 5 and I am having a great time during my practice.

The CD

The recordings allow you to hear how Rabbath uses alternate fingerings, such as closing the open Gs and playing them on the D string. How he pushes and pulls the tempos and how he plays different dynamics than the printed dynamics. These recording are a musical gold mine and prove that playing does not have to be all flash to be musical. That is one thing that has always bothered me about the Suzuki recording, they are too fast and not always musical.

I hope that this helps.

Dimitrius

[Les Fret]

thanks for those videos. I have watched them all. Great stuff.

Is vol. 1 of Rabbath's book enough to get a good idea of all his fingerings? or do I need all volumes?
not sure if I want to go this route so I don't want to buy them all at once.

Are there any sample pages on the internet?
or is there a content of all books?

[dsamudio]

Volume 3 is the most comprehensive regarding fingerings, but after using book 3 for years on and off, I would start with book one. In fact I have. Book 1 is basically the traditional 1/2 and first position range.

Dimitrius

[Chansey]

Originally Posted by damonsmith

Playing amplified or not has an impact on both hands. No matter how you make it happen, playing acoustic with enough volume for performance takes quite a bit of force. Proper technique and good intonation help minimize strain, but the instrument won't play itself no matter what method you study.

Just a small digression, but I just wanted to thank you for this. Despite the fact that I have a good teacher guiding me on proper technique (only started for about half a year), I felt vexed that I was still feeling strained and physically exhausted after prolonged playing. I guess the double bass really is that physical of an instrument and it will be awhile before I build up enough strength and stamina for prolonged "effortless playing" (is being completely effortless on the double bass...even possible?)

[ekspain]

Hey, just a quick note to add to the above.
I've studied personally with Francois for many years (14, thereabout) and also with
more "traditional" teachers. The conclusion that I've come to is that you must learn from
EVERYONE. Francois's strongest point, in my book, is the bow. He's got a right arm
that must be studied in great detail for a long time, to really "get". That is why you have to study with Francois! All the left hand stuff is of course invaluable too, but that you can add, in addition to various other methodologies. The crab technique etc, will add to your arsenal of possibilities, and its essential really, to not be blind to different ideas- He's coming out with a 4th book in March sometime, and that should have some amazing stuff.
That being said, learn from anyone, and everyone you can!