Simandl for kids? No

[SteveFreides]

I'm interested in hearing what else besides Simandl people use to teach elementary school-aged children.

I have a much longer background teaching guitar, and when I teach guitar, I take a very simple approach - learn a few notes on each string and acquire a bit of facility with those before even introducing the concept of an accidentals, let alone how to play them.

I'd like to hear opinions on how anyone thinks Simandl might be appropriate for a 9- or 10-year-old. I teach a lot of kids with no serious musical aspirations, and I frankly like that - I value music in everyone's life and enjoy kids who don't take their playing seriously as well as those who do. My experience with Simandl is that it's just too much, too soon, particularly when double bass is someone's first instrument. Even a 9-year-old can use Simandl if they already play guitar or piano with some fluency, but I've just struck out using it with those new to music.

So far, all I've found is the books the school band and orchestra programs use, e.g., Standard of Excellence and Essential Elements. They're far from ideal, but in my opinion, they're still better than Simandl for a double bass player in the 4th or 5th grade who's new to playing an instrument.

Your comments and thoughts are appreciated, and I'd especially like to hear what method books you may know that might work for me.

Many thanks.

-S-

[Ike Harris]

I've used Bille Book I for beginners of all ages. It moves slowly and there's success to be had in baby steps. The fingering is 1-3-4. You can substitute 2 for 3 instead.

Ike

[SteveFreides]

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/...lume-1/3129557

Is this the book?

-S-

[Tom Gale]

[quote=SteveFreides;11922483]I'm interested in hearing what else besides Simandl people use to teach elementary school-aged children.
Your comments and thoughts are appreciated, and I'd especially like to hear what method books you may know that might work for me.

Many thanks.

I never found any I liked so after 20 years, I wrote my own. Guess what? I LIKE them!!
Tom Gale

[Mike Goodbar]

I'm a proponent of the Vance Progressive Repertoire method. It starts out in the middle of the neck, right where the thumb hits the curve of the neck heel. That give the beginner a nice tactile anchor point, and the finger spacing there is, of course, closer, helping young kids achieve early success. I also use that method for older/adult students who are making the switch from electric for those same reasons.

The only drawback I can see would be pushback from the elementary orchestra directors, many of whom use methods and repertoire that put the notes down in half and first positions for bass.

[Ike Harris]

Originally Posted by SteveFreides

Nuovo Metodo - Volume 1 sheet music by Isaia Bille | Sheet Music Plus

Is this the book?

-S-

Yeah, that's it. The only problem I see with Vance is, like was said above, it doesn't reinforce the lower positions used in early strings class.

[PaulCannon]

Vance is perhaps not as practical to start, but it is much more comprehensive and ultimately more effective. The exercises are more musical and less tedious compared to Simandl, and more in line with modern pedagogy.

[SteveFreides]

My goal is exactly practical to start. I have a 4th grade student who has been playing guitar with me since the 2nd grade who will have her first double bass lesson with me next week. I will order the book I gave the link to earlier in this thread and it will be that, Simandl, or both.

I've taught guitar for much longer and there, I usually start students with one method book at its level one, but eventually end up using two or three different "beginner" books because, well, because it's nice to have more choices.

-S-

[damonsmith]

I have never taught that young - I may go with Gale on that one! Middle school orchestra kids I can get excited about Simandl, not sure about that young.

[SteveFreides]

Tom Gale, can you give me a link to your book, or do I order it from you?

Thanks.

-S-

[Marc Piane]

What about All For Strings? I used that when I taught middle school and it seemed pretty good. Kinda Simandl based. The teacher before me picked it but I decided to stay with it. Seemed like a nice progression of skills along with some nice songs for kids.

[SteveFreides]

All for strings? I will look for that, too.

-S-

[David Potts]

Here in Australia I have been using two local publications with success, before going on into Simandl. I start without any music using a diagram similar to a guitar tabs and simple note names to create a "road map" then use these to play "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star."

The first book I use is "Tricks to Tunes", Book 1, by Audrey Ackerman that works its way logically through note learning and tunes to end with well known tunes in the key of D Major. I then go to "I Bags The Bass", Book 3 (First Position) by Chris Belshaw. It is full of lots of the same well known nursery and childrens' tunes but has no fingerings and uses 2nd finger notes (G C F Bflat) , so that it consolidates note reading in 1st Position. This makes the jump into Simandl easier.

Many of the class string methods use the same approach of (bass) 1st Position then 3rd Position and finish with tunes in D Major. There are Strictly Strings and Abracadabra that I have used. The latter has a play-along CD accompaniment. I recently found a copy of My First Simandl (Carl Fischer) that is worth checking out too.

My youngest students have been in Year 3 here, about 8-9 years old and playing on 1/8 size or mini-basses. By year 5 they are on 1/4 size.and year 6-7 on 1/2 size. I believe such young ears are not (or rarely) attuned to the really low pitch of the bigger instruments. Their voices are pitched so much higher than an adult's.

Cheers.....

DP

[MostlyBass]

In my private studio I use a balanced diet of Simandl (in small doses), Thomas Gale's books (love them!), my own scale sheets (available at http://www.mostlybass.com ), and then whatever the student has from public school so that doesn't get neglected.

Pete

[MaxJohnson]

You can always use the simadl to teach the basics of hand position, technique and reading, and supplement it with recognizable melodies and etudes nad things that are more "fun".

[Heifetzbass]

Sorry, late to the party here...

I use My First Simandl, it is an adaptation of the larger book. It only goes up to 4th position and loses a lot of the double-flat/double-sharp mumbo jumbo.

I supplement with Suzuki school rep for fun.

On occasion I just use the class method book. In my classroom I use New Directions for Strings in which the bass book has the option of starting in D position or A position. (IV or I) It is an adaption by Kathleen Horvath of the Rabbath/Vance approach. It teaches pivots right away and has the basses playing all over the G and D strings in position.

Hope that helps,
Brian

[MostlyBass]

In the public school setting I use the Essential Elements series but then supplement it with Thomas Gale's Practical studies when students are ready (generally 6th - 7th grade).

[Steve Boisen]

I have a twelve year old double bass student and his school band director is using New Directions For Strings D postion book. To me it does not seem much different than other string classroom books like All For Strings and the naming of the positions and description of the French bow hold differ from the way I was taught. I also don't use pivots in the same way the book teaches.

Since I am most familiar with the Simandl method I was thinking of having him work out of My First Simandl but I am worried about introducing this while his school band director is having him work out of a book based on the Rabbath/Vance approach.

- Steve

[kreider204]

A bit late to the party, but here's another option:

http://www.amazon.com/ABCs-Absolute-...ref=pd_sim_b_6

[damonsmith]

I have an 11 year old who is tearing through Simandl and anything else I put in front of him now.
I think it more about motivating the student than anything else.