17 songs for an audition!?

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

So have you lost out on many jobs because you wouldn't suck up to the interviewer and say/do what they wanted?

It depends on how bad you need the job and how much it pays.

Learning 17 songs for the audition is THE REQUIREMENT. It doesn't matter if you think it's too many, it doesn't matter if you think you won't have to play all 17 at the audition. It is the prerequisite for the job.

Granted, but again it depends on whether or not it's worth it to the player. 17 songs is a bit bizarre so the money and or prestige would have to be pretty high in order to overcome the bizarro factor.

If you wanted to play for Cirque du Soleil and they required that you learn 25 songs in one week would you do it? Blue Man Group does exactly that.

Agains that's for the gig and to keep the gig that's what you do. Their audition process I'm sure doesn't require you to learn all 25 songs and they do have sheet music, I know that at least Cirque Du Soleil does.

From the responses in this thread none of you would be able to get this gig just because you think the band leader doesn't know how to run an audition. Go back to your bedrooms and practice.

In most situations, 17 songs for an audition is ridiculous even for major acts and extremely well paying gigs.

[winstonthecat]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

So have you lost out on many jobs because you wouldn't suck up to the interviewer and say/do what they wanted?

Learning 17 songs for the audition is THE REQUIREMENT. It doesn't matter if you think it's too many, it doesn't matter if you think you won't have to play all 17 at the audition. It is the prerequisite for the job.

If you wanted to play for Cirque du Soleil and they required that you learn 25 songs in one week would you do it? Blue Man Group does exactly that.

From the responses in this thread none of you would be able to get this gig just because you think the band leader doesn't know how to run an audition. Go back to your bedrooms and practice.

I can't speak for everyone, but from what I'm reading here the basic consesus is that most people would not want this gig. If you have a band leader that really doesn't know what he is doing, the band is in for some rough times, and personally I would rather work with musicians that have some idea of how to manage a band.

I would call up the leader and clarify if he really wants me to learn and play all 17 songs (originals, I might add, no chance of having heard them before). If he said that is the requirement, I'd pass on the audition. Too many red flags in terms of potential ego and control issues.

When we run auditions, we send the candidates our set list and highlight 4-5 songs we want them to learn. Since we do classic rock covers, if things are going well we will also play any other songs on the list that they know. We add in a mix of styles to see how they play on the loud vs. slow songs.

[derrico1]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Learning 17 songs for the audition is THE REQUIREMENT. It doesn't matter if you think it's too many, it doesn't matter if you think you won't have to play all 17 at the audition. It is the prerequisite for the job.

Thanks for the free advice. If the OP's gig turns out to be a high-profile open-call where for some reason they aren't first screening the pool, then you might be right; but that's not the vibe I'm getting.

I've seen too many auditions when I was coming up in which what was said before the audition had little bearing on what was needed for the gig--or even how the audition went. I learned to ask when possible what the group's plans were and what qualities they were looking for. (Not be a pr*ck about it, mind you, but ask in a friendly way what they were about and what they were looking for, how much time they expected each player would have, any preferences about instruments if that wasn't clear, when applicable what volume levels they preferred so I could bring an appropriate rig, etc.) Sometimes they had a clear idea. Often, they didn't, and in those cases talking with the leader beforehand upped the chances for everyone that they would see and hear what they needed during the audition.

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Go back to your bedrooms and practice.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

So have you lost out on many jobs because you wouldn't suck up to the interviewer and say/do what they wanted?

Learning 17 songs for the audition is THE REQUIREMENT. It doesn't matter if you think it's too many, it doesn't matter if you think you won't have to play all 17 at the audition. It is the prerequisite for the job.

If you wanted to play for Cirque du Soleil and they required that you learn 25 songs in one week would you do it? Blue Man Group does exactly that.

From the responses in this thread none of you would be able to get this gig just because you think the band leader doesn't know how to run an audition. Go back to your bedrooms and practice.

No, the situation is like this, and I can see this as both a bandleader auditioning applicants and as an applicant. As a bandleader I would hope to have my act together enough to know whether someone is right for the gig after hearing them play 3 or 4 songs at the most. I would make sure that I gave them material that was varied and indicative of as many aspects of their playing as I need to hear. Someone that needs someone to learn 17 songs for an audition should probably go back to the bedroom and practice more themselves.

As an applicant I think it is unreasonable to be expected to learn that many songs for an audition I might not even get. Time is money and if I am wasting time on that many songs and don't get the gig it means something else has been sacrificed that would have been more worthwhile. I guess if I was desperate to get into a band and had nothing better to do I might not care.

I think if you were auditioning for Cirque Du Soleil or Blue Man Group on the other hand it wouldn't be unreasonable to ask to have charts provided. I would think that this would be the norm anyway. In fact I would apply that to this situation too. If someone said I want you to play 17 songs at this audition I would say "Can you please provide me with the charts".

[gmstudio99]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

If you wanted to play for Cirque du Soleil and they required that you learn 25 songs in one week would you do it? Blue Man Group does exactly that.

Those types of gigs will not require you to learn 25 songs to simply audition. They'll know within 2-3 tunes if you deserve the gig. Once you get it, THEN it's on you to learn the 25+.

[salcott]

A friend of mine got the call to join a well known fusiony guitarist's band. They sent him a tape of the set he would be performing and a rehearsal date a couple of weeks away. He checked out the tapes, showed up at the rehearsal, said "Where are the charts?". The reply:"What charts? We sent you the tape". I personally find this way of doing business idiotic and insulting, but some bands operate this way. IMHO, if a band is doing all originals, and wants to audition players, they should spend a few bucks and get charts done if they are musically illiterate and incapable of doing it themselves.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by salcott

A friend of mine got the call to join a well known fusiony guitarist's band. They sent him a tape of the set he would be performing and a rehearsal date a couple of weeks away. He checked out the tapes, showed up at the rehearsal, said "Where are the charts?". The reply:"What charts? We sent you the tape". I personally find this way of doing business idiotic and insulting, but some bands operate this way. IMHO, if a band is doing all originals, and wants to audition players, they should spend a few bucks and get charts done if they are musically illiterate and incapable of doing it themselves.

I think if you are going to expect charts you ask for them in the initial contact, that is, over the phone. Your friend was a bit misguided showing up expecting charts when there was no mention of them in the first place. They did send him the tape.

If someone sends you a tape and you need charts, it's your responsibility to make the charts yourself, unless you expressly ask for them. On the other hand if someone sends me a tape and no charts I wouldn't think it reasonable for them to expect me to learn and play 17 songs just for an audition.

[Conway]

Originally Posted by derrico1

There is no One True Way, as different auditions are meant to test different things. Many groups, though, design auditions that either don't test what's actually important to the gig, or else throw in confounding variables so that the results give them a less reliable basis for judgment.

For example, if I'm auditioning players for a tribute band, I could make the audition a cold jam: just start playing changes for a song they don't know (one of my originals, say) and see how developed their ears are. That audition will tell me a lot about their musicianship, but by design it either ignores or obscures some qualities that are way more important to the gig than the ones it puts the most weight on.

I been in situations where the ability to learn 17+ songs by ear in a day or two is a crucial skill. If that's the case here, then the OP should dive in. However, I suspect asking the group leader about the audition's goals would be worthwhile for several reasons: because of the OP's doubts about the audition structure (suggesting at least that the group hasn't made clear what are its key criteria), because IME those kinds of gigs tend to recruit from within a circle of players and MDs who already know one another, and because (again, IME) below a pretty high level of professionalism most groups don't think very carefully about how to design an audition to test for the qualities that most matter to the gig.

ok I can understand that. If thats your approach then I get it and if you talk about it with the band leader and discuss for this situation the reasons for all those songs and then decide with each other if that really is whats needed or not..plus that can just start good communication.
Its when people are just sayin learn what you want and then go to the audition which is basically making power plays or at best just comes across as lazy is when it seems like a really dumb idea to tell the band what you think is best.

but hell I dont know..Ive never held an audition or been to one...ha

[butchblack]

I was talking to a friend last night at a blues jam. He was telling me about a special on VH1 There was a segment on Stevie Wonder, Nathan East was playing with him at that time. Nathan recounts how he got the gig. He was sent charts. His audition was a stadium gig. He plays keys also so he said when he wasn't sure he'd watch Stevie's hands to figure out the chords. Of course Nathan is a great bass player but that had to be one heck of a shock for an audition.

Point being the needs of the band may dictate the audition. 4-5 song would be plenty for my band. We just signed on a guitarist. Now the challenge comes. We need to get about 35 songs down in a couple months with the new guitarist and we have 4 more gigs with the old guitarist that will require at least 2 of the rehearsals. We'll see how fast he learns.