3/4 feel in 5/4 time can it or has it been done?

[jonathan_matos5]

it seems like it would be fun and difficult to play and a good way to prevent people from doing covers of it.(not that im popular or anything)
what do you guys think?

[lemur821]

No, I think you're stuck with a 5/4 feel. I've found that 5/4 is easiest when you approach it as 2+3 or 3+1. 4 plus an extra beat could work too. I think it would be fun, but probably a horrible way to stop covers. I bet everyone would go, "That's so weird; we have to play it!"

[jonathan_matos5]

thats kind of what i was thinking. i know there are alot of blues that do 3/4 feel with 4 beats a measure(georgia on my mind id the first one that pops in my head) but i was just wondering if it were possible to make one odd meter feel like a different odd meter.

[steveb98]

Originally Posted by jonathan_matos5

thats kind of what i was thinking. i know there are alot of blues that do 3/4 feel with 4 beats a measure(georgia on my mind id the first one that pops in my head) but i was just wondering if it were possible to make one odd meter feel like a different odd meter.

I think 12/8 is what your are trying to describe.

Doing odd meters rock is nothing new, the key is a band that can pull it off smoothly so average listen doesn't realize it's an odd meter. Listen to YellowJackets, Bela Fleck, and Victor Wootens stuff they all do odd meter stuff slick as can be.

[jonathan_matos5]

Originally Posted by steveb98

I think 12/8 is what your are trying to describe.

Doing odd meters rock is nothing new, the key is a band that can pull it off smoothly so average listen doesn't realize it's an odd meter. Listen to YellowJackets, Bela Fleck, and Victor Wootens stuff they all do odd meter stuff slick as can be.

i havent seen original sheet music 12/8 sounds right for georgia on my mind but the one we played in highschool band was in 4/4 with alot of triplet quarter notes.

[All_¥our_Bass]

well you could play in odd grouping, but thats really hard to do. Like 3 in the space of 5.

I figured it out

triplet 1/2 tied to triplet 1/8
plus
triplet 1/2 tied to triplet 1/8
plus
triplet 1/2 tied to triplet 1/8

[BassChuck]

Well, if you aren't worried about people dancing, or feeling a groove, you have thousands of options.

Are you talking about a pattern that spreads 3 pulses out over the same time as another pattern using 5? (in this case the begining of each pattern would happen at the same time).
Or.. are you thinking of a pattern that has the same pulse, but phrases in groups of 3 at the same time another pattern phrases in 5? (in this case the whole thing would cycle around every 15 measures).

People are often irritated by rhythms that are out of sync so you will want to take it easy on this kind of thing.... unless you intend to irriate, and why not?

[ras1983]

try emphasing the 1st, 5th beats of the bar. maybe even the 4th beat also...

[geoffkhan]

Just count it as 3 + 2, and give the first three beats that 3/4 feel.

[tkozal]

This is a little different, but when I studied Dave Holland's "Conference of the Birds" with my old instructor Eric Kloss, we got in a 3 and 5 bag. The tune is in 5, really 3+2. And there are 6 measures of this before the 7/4 ending bit. Thats 6 x 5 equals 30. So I was surprised to hear Kloss soloing in three over the form, playing 10 bars of three over the 6 bars of 5 WHOO EEEE!!! Such Fun! Plus it worked with the Melody. Sounded Great

[jonathan_matos5]

Originally Posted by BassChuck

Well, if you aren't worried about people dancing, or feeling a groove, you have thousands of options.

Are you talking about a pattern that spreads 3 pulses out over the same time as another pattern using 5?

the first one 3 pulses over a pattern using 5 so you are playing in 5 but it sounds and feels like you are playing in 3.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by jonathan_matos5

i havent seen original sheet music 12/8 sounds right for georgia on my mind but the one we played in highschool band was in 4/4 with alot of triplet quarter notes.

Same thing.

Sort of.

[iplaybassguitar]

you could always play in 3/4 while the drummer plays in 5, then every 15 beats you would meet up. hemiola i believe its called

[s.m.80808]

1 - - - - 2 - - - - 3 - - - -
1 - - 2 - - 3 - - 4 - - 5 - -

Like that?

(MP3 = high hat playing 5 grouping while emphasizing 3+2 for 4 measures then 2+3 for four measures with kick playing 3 grouping)

[Erick Lam]

It's been done. I composed a tune based on that.

[jonathan_matos5]

Originally Posted by Erick Lam

It's been done. I composed a tune based on that.

was it fun to play?

[Erick Lam]

Well yeah, but I've never played it with a band. I don't know many people who can learn it quickly and rarely see those who can. I wrote a much simpler 3 against 4 for my band and it took forever for my drummer to get it.

It's not a straight 5 against 3. It's on the principle described by iplaybassguitar and s.m.80808. I started with a drum beat with bass drum every 5th and snare every 3rd and wrote from that. I wrote it in 5/4 instead of 15/16 to keep it simple and the beat comes back on one after 3 bars. Ride and HH are still in a 4/4 feel so it doesn't sound like a pattern. Making it fluid is the biggest challenge with those sorts of beat.

I wrote most of it in college when I listened to too much Stravinsky. It's full of major 7th, flat 9th and tritons. They were the good days. An ear training teacher asked the class to bring rythm patterns and he would play them. We made some impossible pattern to play on the spot, with a triplet inside another triplet.

[jonathan_matos5]

that sounds like fun. in highschool me and about 7 of my friends formed a jazz group and we would do some experimental improvisation. we had alot of fun trying to play swing in 5/4 and 3/4.