3 Finger Method or One Finger Per Fret (Friedland Book)

[fdtech]

Hi All,

A little background on me. Im a keyboard player, been playing for over 20 years (Im 31), and I have a bachelors degree in music. Im looking to learn a new instrument and I've always loved bass, so here I am. I picked up a Sterling by MM SB14 and the Ed Friedland Hal Leonard Bass Method Book (1,2,3) as well as the Hal Leonard DVD with Ed.

So far it's been pretty interesting and musically I'm having no problem following along. My question is about fretting. In the beginning of book 1, Ed recommends the 1, 2, 4 finger fretting, but later (yes I flipped ahead out of curiosity...i havent gotten that far yet) he talks about one finger per fret. So being that I come from a piano background, with fairly long fingers, should I try the earlier lessons following the 1 finger per fret method since thats the direction it seems to be heading in?

My fear is that I get into a habit using 3 fingers only to have to worry about changing it once I get to that level and having to "re-learn" my fretting style.

Thoughts?

[UncleFluffy]

I started (restarted, really) with the HL book, but used one-finger-per-fret from the beginning. Why relearn everything if you're physically capable of doing it right from the beginning?

[Archaeobass]

Fretting hand technique depends on a lot of factors. Your posture, the position of the bass on your body, and your anatomy all play into the question of how to approach fretting. The scale length of your bass can also confound things.

Conventional wisdom holds that a three finger approach, with the pinky and ring fingers working in tandem is probably the most ergonomic technique in the lower registers. However, by the time you're in fifth position, the closer fret spacing combined with reduced angle on your wrist makes a four fingered approach less hazardous to your long term health and comfort.

Even with 'piano fingers,' I'd learn to be comfortable with BOTH techniques. Some passages will require that you play with four to the board in first position, but I think you'll find that for extended play a three finger technique is most comfortable down low.

[sloasdaylight]

I've got pretty strong hands, so I basically went right to the "whichever finger reaches the fret first" method of fretting. You'll eventually need to learn how to do things basically in ways you never thought possible before, so get crackin on the 1 finger/fret method.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by fdtech

Hi All,

A little background on me. Im a keyboard player, been playing for over 20 years (Im 31), and I have a bachelors degree in music. Im looking to learn a new instrument and I've always loved bass, so here I am. I picked up a Sterling by MM SB14 and the Ed Friedland Hal Leonard Bass Method Book (1,2,3) as well as the Hal Leonard DVD with Ed.

So far it's been pretty interesting and musically I'm having no problem following along. My question is about fretting. In the beginning of book 1, Ed recommends the 1, 2, 4 finger fretting, but later (yes I flipped ahead out of curiosity...i havent gotten that far yet) he talks about one finger per fret. So being that I come from a piano background, with fairly long fingers, should I try the earlier lessons following the 1 finger per fret method since thats the direction it seems to be heading in?

My fear is that I get into a habit using 3 fingers only to have to worry about changing it once I get to that level and having to "re-learn" my fretting style.

Thoughts?

Actually, if you watch Ed Freidland play you'll see what he's talking about. When he's down in the first 3 or 4 frets he uses fingers 1-2-4 almost all the time, but further up the neck he switches to 1-finger-per-fret. He'll mix that up a bit as he goes down but by the time he's in half position, he's using 1-2-4.

FWIW, my gigging career has ended early due to trying to use 1FPF down in the lower frets for 25 years (didn't figure out that there was a chronic problem until just a few weeks ago). I use 1-2-4 in the lower registers now, tho my left wrist will never be able to take the hammering of regular playing again. I'll be happy if I can get through a song or two on a daily basis without pain, but jury's still out.

It is a bit of an adjustment as you do have to relearn things to use only 1-2-4 down there and when it's ok to switch to 1FPF, etc. But it definitely does take a lot of the "crunch" out of that poor wrist.......

LS

[radiohead860]

Originally Posted by unclejane

Actually, if you watch Ed Freidland play you'll see what he's talking about. When he's down in the first 3 or 4 frets he uses fingers 1-2-4 almost all the time, but further up the neck he switches to 1-finger-per-fret. He'll mix that up a bit as he goes down but by the time he's in half position, he's using 1-2-4.

LS

On that same note... I've picked up the bass again after a few year on/off hiatus, and was informed last night at my first lesson with a new teacher of the health hazards of doing OFPF.

Personally, OFPF seems ok for anything around/higher than the 7th fret, but if you're playing the lower register, it became pretty obvious to me after he explained it that you can seriously hurt yourself down the road.

Prior to learning this, I was a firm OFPF adherent (without ever having been told about it nor taking lessons before, it just seemed like the easiest way to play!).

So now, I'm basically re-wiring 10 years of muscle memory at this point, which sucks, but one thing I will say so far is that my playing is a LOT smoother in the lower register as before I was making unnatural stretches, which caused some serious hand cramps at times.

All in all, I'd rather not have health issues precluding me from playing down the road, so +1 to unclejane's post.

I'm going for a hybrid of OFPF (which feels natural past the 7th fret), and 1-2-4 in the lower register. My teacher may not dig this, but it's what feels the most natural to me and it's not as much of a health concern in the upper register.

[So Low Bass]

Would you play piano with just four fingers (on each hand)?

[edfriedland]

The main reason for using 1-2-4 is to avoid the strain in the left hand that occurs when playing whole steps, fifths, and octaves in the lower position. It forces your hand into a stretch (unless you have basketball player hands). Since bass playing is very repetitive, you can very easily cause repetitive stress injuries. I DO use 1-2-3-4 down there for minor scales, chromatic runs, etc, but you have to pivot between the 2nd and 3rd fingers. Best of luck, stay loose!

[THand]

Originally Posted by edfriedland

The main reason for using 1-2-4 is to avoid the strain in the left hand that occurs when playing whole steps, fifths, and octaves in the lower position. It forces your hand into a stretch (unless you have basketball player hands). Since bass playing is very repetitive, you can very easily cause repetitive stress injuries. I DO use 1-2-3-4 down there for minor scales, chromatic runs, etc, but you have to pivot between the 2nd and 3rd fingers. Best of luck, stay loose!

^^^da man!!^^^

[fdtech]

Thanks everyone for their responses...and kudos to Ed with great customer service even chiming in himself!

I definitely will stick to the way the book instructs. I initially thought it was just a way for a beginner to dip their toe in playing bass (which is kinda is, in that it forces you to use your pinky early on and do some stretching)...but there obviously are ergonomic reasons for it which I was not aware of.

Thanks again!

[So Low Bass]

Ed-
Can I assume that you took serious double bass instruction? Your bio mentions your orchestral experience in high school.

[origami]

Learning 1 finger per fret is essential to playing some scales in closed position in a memorable movable basic shape all over the neck.

When I did some teaching, I started students of learning this basic stuff:

fingering 2,4;1,2,4;1,3,4 major scale box pattern.
Example F#.

G----------------
D----------1-3-4-
A----1-2-4-------
E-2-4------------

fingering 1,3,4;1,3,4,1,3 natural minor scale box pattern
Example Fm.

G-------------------
D-------------1-3--
A-------1-3-4-------
E-1-3-4------------

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by radiohead860

All in all, I'd rather not have health issues precluding me from playing down the road, so +1 to unclejane's post.

FWIW, in my case the problem is on the back of the wrist rather than the front. But the cartilage in the wrist itself seems also to be exhausted. Fortunately, I can still be pain-free otherwise if I put the bass down for a week or two and let it all heal up. But since I don't like to be in pain, I've decided to put it down for good except for the occasional basis for woodshedding and doing my own recording, and stopping soon as the pain starts to resurface.

Another thing to watch for is a well-balanced instrument. This is critical depending on the technique you use (i.e. if you use a technique like Billy Sheehan, it's not such a big deal). In my case I gigged with Rickenbackers for about 10 years, a very poorly balanced design. I was frequently down with a crunched wrist during that time, none the wiser I was doing long-term damage.

LS

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by origami

Learning 1 finger per fret is essential to playing some scales in closed position in a memorable movable basic shape all over the neck.

When I did some teaching, I started students of learning this basic stuff:

fingering 2,4;1,2,4;1,3,4 major scale box pattern.
Example F#.

G----------------
D----------1-3-4-
A----1-2-4-------
E-2-4------------

fingering 1,3,4;1,3,4,1,3 natural minor scale box pattern
Example Fm.

G-------------------
D-------------1-3--
A-------1-3-4-------
E-1-3-4------------

The minor scale played this way down in half position will really do it to your wrist. This is the way I did it for years and basically what ended my career - the problem here is using 3 to play G# (I believe it is). This can really cause the wrist to crease in half to fret this note. On the A and higher it's not so bad, but I'd personally recommend a different fingering on the E to keep from crunching up the hand.

I'm still working on a good way to finger this down low without having to use 3. Course it's fine above the 5th fret position or so.....

The major isn't so bad because it uses 1-2-4 and doesn't seem to smash your wrist up as bad as when you use 3.

If you're built like or as strong as a gorilla this is probably ok, but it sure did me in

LS

[UncleFluffy]

As someone who pushed OFPF, I should give context: I'm 6'2" 210 with hands to scale and spend a lot of time at a computer keyboard so have fairly strong/fast hands. What works for me may not work for you ...

[So Low Bass]

Originally Posted by origami

Learning 1 finger per fret is essential to playing some scales in closed position in a memorable movable basic shape all over the neck.

When I did some teaching, I started students of learning this basic stuff:

fingering 2,4;1,2,4;1,3,4 major scale box pattern.
Example F#.


fingering 1,3,4;1,3,4,1,3 natural minor scale box pattern

I Agree 100% with this. It is essential for a student to avoid open strings when learning the fingerboard... especially ones that aren't interested in thinking notes; thinking position instead. Once these two scale patterns are mastered they can be applied anywhere in any key. Add the major/minor chords with those patterns along with some basic blues patterns and you're on your way.

My motto is "two on major, one on minor".

[Infernal Affair]

Originally Posted by unclejane

I'm still working on a good way to finger this down low without having to use 3. Course it's fine above the 5th fret position or so.....

You can use your pinky and then slide from the 3rd into the 4th fret.

For people doing 1-2-4 method (a.k.a. Simandl method) of fingering, if you don't feel comfortable with just your pinky, you can treat your ring and pinky finger as one unit. I believe that's what some double bass players do, but I'm not an upright player so don't take my word for it.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by So Low Bass

My motto is "two on major, one on minor".

A lot of mileage can be had there. If they actually practice I'll add 4 on the root for either one, that'll open up the neck.

[rarisgod]

I was using 1 finger per fret all over the neck in the beginning, but due to problems I already have in my right hand, I figure my playing should be as smooth as possible, and therefore in the lower registers, where it becomes difficult to stretch, I use my pinky. For instance if playing the low F and its octave, I'll use my pinky as its just much more comfortable and natural. It allows for better playing and I don't see how it could be a problem.

[slybass3000]

Originally Posted by fdtech

Hi All,

A little background on me. Im a keyboard player, been playing for over 20 years (Im 31), and I have a bachelors degree in music. Im looking to learn a new instrument and I've always loved bass, so here I am. I picked up a Sterling by MM SB14 and the Ed Friedland Hal Leonard Bass Method Book (1,2,3) as well as the Hal Leonard DVD with Ed.

So far it's been pretty interesting and musically I'm having no problem following along. My question is about fretting. In the beginning of book 1, Ed recommends the 1, 2, 4 finger fretting, but later (yes I flipped ahead out of curiosity...i havent gotten that far yet) he talks about one finger per fret. So being that I come from a piano background, with fairly long fingers, should I try the earlier lessons following the 1 finger per fret method since thats the direction it seems to be heading in?

My fear is that I get into a habit using 3 fingers only to have to worry about changing it once I get to that level and having to "re-learn" my fretting style.

Thoughts?

If you are serious about learning and playing the bass,I suggest that you learn the 1 2 3 4 for your exercices and scales to develop your dexterity and strengh of your hand and fingers. That doesn't mean you cannot play in closed position (1-4) while playing a G7 groove as an exemple. It is easier on the hand and sometimes it will help you phrase smoother in the groove. But then if you want to open up your playing you can shift to 1 finger per frets to play in the scale if you want.

Just like an athlete that streches his(her) legs to the maximum,it doesn't mean that they have to use the full extension while performing but again if they have to do it they will use it because they practiced their spread.


Good luck,


Sly