Is 3-Finger Worth It?

DaemonBass · #1 05-22-2006, 12:58 AM

I wish to improve my fingerstyle technique. I have been playing for a few years using only 2 fingers to pluck. I am trying to play some fast metal basslines (think Dream Theatre, Opeth, Death) so my goal is to be able to play some pretty complicated basslines, say, 16th notes at 150bpm.

My question:

Is playing with a 3 finger technique necessary to play what I'm trying to play? Is there is big reason why I should relearn my right hand plucking technique? And finally what are the advantages of using 3-fingers as opposed to only 2?

Also, please post some 2-finger players who play in the genre that you think are good. If at all possible I want to avoid relearning my entire right hand approach.

morf · #2 05-22-2006, 06:26 AM

Check out Cannibal Corpse's bassist's technique. He's hell of fast.

tyburn · #3 05-22-2006, 06:31 AM

If, as you say you want to avoid relearning your right hand technique then don't. Theres nothing worse than trying to apply something you're not comfortable with. If you have the time and the urge to learn then do it.

If you think you can make use of the 3 finger technique then give it a shot, but it will take time and practice.

There are a number of players out there who have some blistering speed and don't use 3 fingers. If you can get your 2 fingers up to speed then work with them.

If you apply the third (weaker finger) it may just end up getting in the way ....

Stu

SteveC · #4 05-22-2006, 07:09 AM

No.

I've never had to use or needed more than 2 fingers.

Practice.

jzucker · #5 05-22-2006, 07:15 AM

There's no magic answer. Listen to Gary Willis and you might be convinced that the 3rd finger is absolutely essential to fast and accurate playing and string skipping...But then go listen to Jaco or Jeff Berlin or Tony Grey and they all have ridiculous speed using 2 fingers. Then go look at Kai Eckhardt and he plays ridiculously fast alternating between the thumb and index finger.

The common trait among all these cats isn't the physical approach. It's the dogged pursuit of perfection and the 4-8 hours of daily practice.

pocketmonster · #6 05-22-2006, 03:23 PM

I rarely find that the third finger is necessary, but there are certain rhythms that feel natural with three fingers - usually triplets

or fast sets of three where a trumpet might use a triple tongue technique. Three fingers generally feels awkward to me when the beats are lining up in sets of two or four. It's worth trying it out in practice to see if it feels good and helps you nail what you are trying to play.

Poop-Loops · #7 05-22-2006, 04:19 PM

I've only started learning a few months ago and play with 3 fingers, because I also want to play things like Death (my favorite band

).

Lately, though, I've been thinking of switching to 2 fingers for more speed! The 3rd finger is very weak, and I usually pull my pinky along very slightly, which slows it down even more.

Also, from what I can tell, the blistering fast bass lines in Death songs are fairly simple (1 note), so it would probably be easier to just use a pick if you want to do that. That's what I was thinking of doing if I couldn't get my fingers that fast.

However, Cliff Burton only used 2 fingers, and he could play pretty fast, don't you agree?

EDIT: Oh, and I hardly ever screw up while playing unless I actually think about what I'm playing. If I just go with the flow, I use the right fingers at the right time without any problem. It's mainly speed I'm worried about, not getting confused.

EDIT2: http://www.savefile.com/files/3436381

Check that out. It's Alex Webster recording Frantic Disembowelment. This makes me want to stick to 3 fingers.

DaemonBass · #8 05-22-2006, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poop-Loops

However, Cliff Burton only used 2 fingers, and he could play pretty fast, don't you agree?

Agreed.

DaemonBass · #9 05-22-2006, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzucker

The common trait among all these cats isn't the physical approach. It's the dogged pursuit of perfection and the 4-8 hours of daily practice.

I hear you.

Haven't heard any reasons yet why 3 finger is necessary so for now gonna stick with what works for me.

Poop-Loops · #10 05-22-2006, 09:22 PM

Listen to some Atheist. Tony Choi uses a lot of slapping and popping. 2 or 3 fingers doesn't really matter then, right?

GabeN · #11 05-22-2006, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poop-Loops

However, Cliff Burton only used 2 fingers, and he could play pretty fast, don't you agree?

I have to disagree. On Battery you HAVE to use 3 fingers to do the triplets. I also seem to remember watching a movie where Cliff used 3 and even 4 fingers at one point. I could be mistaken though.

But, yes, practice 2 finger style and it can be fast. 3 fingers are nice to be able to use sometimes though.

Twistad · #12 05-22-2006, 11:02 PM

I've been playing with 3 fingers ala Billy Sheehan for almost a year now, and I find myself much more comfortable now using 3 instead of 2. I certainly gained speed but i also like the additional finger for adding ghost notes when playing funk.

I wouldn't say using 3 fingers is better than 2, i just thought that there should be no reason to not use my ring finger.

Contrary to what most people seem to say, you can easily break from doing triplets by practicing along a metronome. 3213 2132 1321, etc. is a good exercise to practice this. Once you're good at this, also try doing 32 13 21 etc. while string-crossing and moving around the fretboard.

Poop-Loops · #13 05-22-2006, 11:31 PM

You go 321? I've been doing 123 this whole time.

Yeah, breaking from triplets came really fast to me, actually.

Why do you HAVE TO use 3 fingers to do the triplets? I can't imagine going 121 212 121, etc., would be any harder than going 123 123 123. Besides, if he used 2 fingers for everything else (where did you get 4 from??), going with 3 fingers would be a lot harder.

Pantsman · #14 05-22-2006, 11:32 PM

Umm, i've been battery played completely with 2 fingers, i'm getting there myself speed wise with 2

gstbass · #15 05-22-2006, 11:44 PM

3 fingers is more rhthym than speed, at least for me

Poop-Loops · #16 05-23-2006, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantsman

As a bassist what do I need to learn?

Everything.

Find a bass teacher that will teach music theory. The red flags that I see are "new to the area" and "no bass listed". Too much trouble if you ask me. Just keep looking.

ERIC31 · #17 05-23-2006, 12:24 AM

Dennis Pepa from Death Angel plays with the 4-finger technique and he's way fast.

Gopher Bob · #18 05-23-2006, 01:17 AM

This is an awesome thread. I have been researching this a lot in the passed week.

I've been galloping Steve Digiorgio style for a couple years.
This is Steve Digiorgio's way
http://www.stevedigiorgio.com/bin/column.pdf
and if that doesn't work just go to his site and go to 'music' then click 'tablature' then click the speed fingering link.

BUT for 16ths or any non triplets I used I-M, his method doesn't feel like an advantage.

So I was curious as to three fingers in general and how much speed they provide. I looked at Steve Bailey's Technique which is Steve Digiorgio's but in reverse (I-M-R-M). In a video I recently watched Billy Sheehan pointed out that the method just mentioned makes your middle finger work twice as hard. If you think about it for a second that technique is just two finger techique alternating between the Ring and the Index. It's basically a more confusing two finger technique in my opinion. Sheehan also has pointed out that most people's fingers move more naturally from R-M-I (I don't know about you but thats the case with me). His method of using 3 fingers for lets say a 16th line is: R M I over and over and over in that order no deviation, and you need to break out of the galloping. As always start the metronome slow.

Lets say Damage Inc.
----R M I R M I R M I R M I R M I R
E---0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

you must stay in that order and do them smooth NO galloping.
If you think about it whats going on is your starting on a Different finger each 4 beats. You start on R and end on R and you start on M and end on M etc. This will help with string skipping.

From my novice opinon if your looking for speed other than using 2 fingers, practice this method it clearly has speed advantages because it gives each finger 1/3 more reaction time(don't make fun of that statment if its wrong i'm no mathmetician, ha).

And feel free to point out the errors in this. For the past two weeks I have been reviewing instructional material on Video and Online searching for the 'best' way and it seems Billy Sheehan's and would certainly be glad to hear someone elses 'best' way.

To wrap things up from what i've read or heard:

Gary Willis - I-M and Thumb (Order and Concept may be wrong)
Steve Bailey - I-M-R-M (watched Bass Extremes Instructional)
Steve Digiorgio - R-M-I-M
Billy Sheehan - R-M-I-R, M-I-R-M, I-R-M-I (seems to own)

PS If you play the other way more comfortably I-M-R than it could be applied in the same manner.

Bluez Dawg · #19 05-23-2006, 01:18 AM

Don't you mean 4 finger stretch? Because I can pull off the 4 finger stretch really easly. but its cool. and to anser your question? I think because you be able to play more notes and so on.

Gopher Bob · #20 05-23-2006, 01:32 AM

Oh, and a side note. Gary willis uses that willis ramp to help his technique. Billy Sheehan does the same thing but instead of using a ramp he uses the smooth surface of his P pickup. This allows him(them) to never 'dig in' to the strings when playing fast nearly forcing each note to sound identical to the other.

There are plenty of 'ramp threads' so just check those out if your interested.

heres a link to his bass to check it out if you've never seen it.

ol' Billy says that his playing on the pickup is so essential to playing fast and cleanly that for awhile he kept it secret!