a 4-string and notes below E

dancrocker · #1 05-26-2009, 03:09 PM

Hi All,
I've been been playing off and on for years but consider myself pretty much a novice. Mostly I play by myself and rarely with other people. I am toying with the idea of playing with a music group in my church. I got talked into it by the music director because they really need a bassist and I'm assuming (hoping?) I'll be able to keep up. We'll see

...

Anyways, I've been learning some of the songs in preparation for my first rehearsal with the group. It turns out that some of the songs require notes lower than E. Since I'm playing a P-bass, I don't have those notes unless I detune. Note that some of the songs don't require anything lower.

One obvious option is a 5-string but my hands are quite small and I'm afraid I don't have the reach. I'm also afraid my technique may not allow me to play the B string very well; when I've messed with a 5-string, that B string seems pretty "floppy"

Of course, I would rather not spend the money on a new instrument if I don't have to, but this is a secondary consideration.

Now for the request for advice. Would detuning be a good option? If so, should I detune only the E or every string? I've always played with standard tuning so detuning of any type is probably going to mess me up, but I'm not sure what will mess me up more, detuning the whole bass or just the E string. My gut tells me to just do the E, but what the hell do I know?

If I detune just the E, is it ridiculous to consider retuning this string between songs (only detune for the ones that need it)? It sounds like it might be kind of a pain but I think I may have enough time. I'm curious what people usually do in this case.

As for 5-strings, I will post a question in the instrument forum, but if you have any advice for 5-strings for people with small hands, feel free to let me know.

Thanks and be gentle

Dan

Rock-Bassman · #2 05-26-2009, 03:13 PM

Grab A set of 5-strings, toss the top G and string that sucker up

hehe I'd get it setup for that first.You only really lose like 6 notes that unless your crazy slapper, you're prolly not gonna use.

gonzorob · #3 05-26-2009, 03:13 PM

Assuming that you are talking about Drop D tuning, I would say get yourself a cheapo(sx/squier/ibanez) leave it tuned down. Then just leave your P-bass tuned standard and you can switch basses when you need to.

HogieWan · #4 05-26-2009, 03:16 PM

or go up an octave

dancrocker · #5 05-26-2009, 03:17 PM

So, you're suggesting I tune my 4-string to B E A D ? An interesting idea but I think that would throw me for a major loop.

wizay · #6 05-26-2009, 03:18 PM

Get a Hipshot D-tuner, works great

dancrocker · #7 05-26-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HogieWan

or go up an octave

Yes, I considered that but it doesn't sound right to me.
Dan

dancrocker · #8 05-26-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzorob

Assuming that you are talking about Drop D tuning, I would say get yourself a cheapo(sx/squier/ibanez) leave it tuned down. Then just leave your P-bass tuned standard and you can switch basses when you need to.

This would probably be cheaper than any 5-string...

neurotictim · #9 05-26-2009, 03:19 PM

Or get one of these:

Hipshot Xtender... just a flip will allow you to change between standard and drop-D tuning.

Of course, an SX bass is only a few dollars more...

schismpunk · #10 05-26-2009, 03:24 PM

+1 for the Hipshot. I have one on my MM, and I can't stress how useful it really is. If you're trying to get used to playing in Drop D, don't think about it as "my E string is down a whole step therefore this note, which is normally G, is now UP a whole step, therefore it's at THIS fret....etc" think about it as if you're just playing your high D string. The on-the-fly thought process is much easier with that mindset.

gonzorob · #11 05-26-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancrocker

This would probably be cheaper than any 5-string...

If it is drop D tuning, all you have to do is tune your E down to D and leave the rest as they are. I had the same questions when my guitarist wanted to start doing some songs in drop d, but once you get your head around it, its no big deal.

dancrocker · #12 05-26-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neurotictim

Or get one of these:

Hipshot Xtender... just a flip will allow you to change between standard and drop-D tuning.

Of course, an SX bass is only a few dollars more...

This is interesting; I wasn't even aware these things were available. How well do they work? Are there any issues with being out of tune when switching back and forth?

And, a cheap bass is similar money, but I like my p-bass and would rather not cart around two instruments (my car is a little small for that).

Dan

Michael Campbel · #13 05-26-2009, 03:35 PM

SX 5'ers are really inexpensive.

schismpunk · #14 05-26-2009, 03:36 PM

The hipshot has a screw on the bottom that adjusts the note that you detune to. There is a minor detune issue when you come back up, but if you're gentle with your throws, it's really only a couple cents difference.

JTE · #15 05-26-2009, 03:38 PM

I've had a Hipshot Bass Extender key on my Precision since right after I bought her in 1983. And the StingRay I had before I got the P had one from whenever they first came out. Now almost all my 4-string basses have Hipshots. They work great. You do have to spend some time on initial set-up, and each time you restring to calibrate them, but they'll work great after that. I just took on of my basses out of the case where it'd been sitting for a few months. The Hipshot dropped straight to D and came back right to E.

Now, whether the songs "need"those notes below E is another discusssion. See, before the 5 was common, most songs didn't have those notes. I've got a 5 (pretty much because playing with a B-3 in our church it's great to have those Eb, D, and C down there). But our regular bassist has only had his 5 for about two years. Before that he did it all on a 4 and it works.

You don't just move the whole line up an octave, nor do you just move those notes below E up. You have to rethink the bass line, but it's not generally something where the exact bass line on the recroding is "the bassline".

jte

HogieWan · #16 05-26-2009, 03:39 PM

http://www.rondomusic.com/spb6241.html

You're welcome

Rickett Customs · #17 05-26-2009, 03:41 PM

+1 SX's are economically Viable.......

Ibanez 5'ers are pretty tight spaced.

Ibanez GSR205 $299

http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--IBAGSR205FM

dancrocker · #18 05-26-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

I've had a Hipshot Bass Extender key on my Precision since right after I bought her in 1983. And the StingRay I had before I got the P had one from whenever they first came out. Now almost all my 4-string basses have Hipshots. They work great. You do have to spend some time on initial set-up, and each time you restring to calibrate them, but they'll work great after that. I just took on of my basses out of the case where it'd been sitting for a few months. The Hipshot dropped straight to D and came back right to E.

Now, whether the songs "need"those notes below E is another discusssion. See, before the 5 was common, most songs didn't have those notes. I've got a 5 (pretty much because playing with a B-3 in our church it's great to have those Eb, D, and C down there). But our regular bassist has only had his 5 for about two years. Before that he did it all on a 4 and it works.

You don't just move the whole line up an octave, nor do you just move those notes below E up. You have to rethink the bass line, but it's not generally something where the exact bass line on the recroding is "the bassline".

jte

Thanks for the advice on moving the bassline around. I understand exactly what you're saying but I'm not sure I have the skills to do this

. Any advice on how to do this? I have almost no music theory background to fall back on for this.

What's interesting about these particular songs is that I first learned them from mp3s. None of the songs' basslines required notes below E and I was feeling pretty good. Then, I received the songbook the group uses and most of the songs are in a different key in the songbook (in some cases, a lower key). I checked with the director and she told me that they most often follow the sheet music. So, I'm having to re-learn the songs in a different key which isn't that difficult for the songs that don't go below E. It's the other ones that I'm struggling with

.

Dan

HEADLE · #19 05-26-2009, 03:57 PM

I am just like you. I'm a medoicre player at best but I do occasionally play with some budies and I hold my own quite well in a modern worship band. I have 4 strings and 5 strings tuned normal and a four string strung BEAD. As soon as you wrap your head around it it's easy to go from one instrument to another. However if your Church is anything like mine, we don't really stop between songs. We either segway from one to another or at the end it goes quiet for just a second and the lead instrument starts the next song. We play 6 songs at the beginnig of the service and the occasional song at the end. So as you can see there really isn't time to change. Drop D screws with me so I don't go there, plus I like the low C and the occasional B. I can and regularly do play in standard tuning and like was previously stated you have to make the line your own. Easy enough to do. My suggestion is the same as most of the others. Either restring BEAD or get another bass. SX are cheap and sound decent String spacing will be a touch narrower than you are used to but easy enough to adapt to. My preference is Ibanez and they have nice slim necks on their 5 strings. I just picked up an NOS SR645 in immaculate perfect couldn't get better if I wanted condition for $290.00 on e-bay. No matter what you decide, enjoy it!

H

dancrocker · #20 05-26-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEADLE

I am just like you. I'm a medoicre player at best but I do occasionally play with some budies and I hold my own quite well in a modern worship band. I have 4 strings and 5 strings tuned normal and a four string strung BEAD. As soon as you wrap your head around it it's easy to go from one instrument to another. However if your Church is anything like mine, we don't really stop between songs. We either segway from one to another or at the end it goes quiet for just a second and the lead instrument starts the next song. We play 6 songs at the beginnig of the service and the occasional song at the end. So as you can see there really isn't time to change. Drop D screws with me so I don't go there, plus I like the low C and the occasional B. I can and regularly do play in standard tuning and like was previously stated you have to make the line your own. Easy enough to do. My suggestion is the same as most of the others. Either restring BEAD or get another bass. SX are cheap and sound decent String spacing will be a touch narrower than you are used to but easy enough to adapt to. My preference is Ibanez and they have nice slim necks on their 5 strings. I just picked up an NOS SR645 in immaculate perfect couldn't get better if I wanted condition for $290.00 on e-bay. No matter what you decide, enjoy it!

H

Thanks. And, as for there being time between songs, this is a catholic church so there's often plenty of time in between...

Dan