40 yrs old, playing for 25 yrs...can't read fer crap.

Barfly · #1 05-20-2007, 11:04 PM

Besides simple TAB, I can't read for heck.

My question: has anyone else been in my boat age/experience wise and actually gone on to become an accomplished "reader"?

Poop-Loops · #2 05-20-2007, 11:08 PM

People learn new languages all the time at your age. Luckily for you, there isn't much to reading music to get your started. Later you can get as convoluted as you want, but the basics are well... basic.

www.musictheory.net

Look over the lessons.

PilbaraBass · #3 05-20-2007, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barfly

Besides simple TAB, I can't read for heck.

My question: has anyone else been in my boat age/experience wise and actually gone on to become an accomplished "reader"?

At 4, you learn everything that is put before you...At 40, you learn what you need to learn...if you need to learn to read, you WILL learn it...
but if you have no need for it, you will struggle a bit...

I'm 42...I read music 10 times better than say 3 years ago...the more I'm exposed to it, and need to learn it, the better I do.
Not to say I don't wish I'd learned when I was 8...I learned drums at an early age, and reading and counting rhythms is completely intuitive to me.
But the notes on the scale, are a bit of a struggle...

AxtoOx · #4 05-20-2007, 11:14 PM

I got you by 5 years on both, yes you can, no I haven't. I had a teacher that was slowly sneaking it in on me. I had to quit the lessons due to work. These lessons were fun. More Songwriting than basics. He'd give me a progression and send me home to write at least 3 different bass lines for it. That's when it stopped.
I play by ear so well it's actually hurt me in that dept. Why read it when I can just play it? Now I'm older and wiser, I want to read too.

DocBop · #5 05-20-2007, 11:32 PM

Reading music is just one of those things you have to work on daily to get and to maintain it. Age has nothing to do with it, in fact it could help with patience to sit and focus.

xkimsungminx · #6 05-21-2007, 12:09 AM

mm.. well I'm not nearly as old as you are, and you have more experience than I've been alive for but I basically forced myself to learn too. I really wanted to make the jazz band when I was first starting up bass, and I just basically sat down with a short piece and tried sight reading it literally measure by measure. Talk about major time consumption, but I eventually got really good at it within a few months from just the necessity of being able to read the music we were playing in Jazz Band.

You should just try finding the music for pieces you've never heard before so you won't know what it sounds like in your head, and try sight reading it. It'll definitely be frustrating basically going note by note across the sheet, but it'll pay off =).

edit: Sorry I don't think I even answered your question. Well I think that anyone, with the motivation to accomplish something, will be able to do it. And I second what DocBop said too. =D

Good luck with your quest to being a capable reader. Once you get there, it actually becomes pretty natural.

wordsmith4u · #7 05-21-2007, 06:53 AM

I'm similar to you. 43 years old, been playing bass for 20 years. Since you're already familiar with tab notation, the easiest way would be to work on material that has both tab AND standard notation. That way, you start to associate the written notes with where they are on the bass neck.

Trust me--after a month or two, you'll start to know standard notation like the back of your hand, and will find that tabs are no longer necessary.

And that, my friend, is such a good feeling!

badgrandad · #8 05-21-2007, 07:40 AM

I'm in the same boat, I did learn to read music when I was in elementary school but it was alto clef. I am 49 and want to learn to read bass clef and treble clef and be able to apply it to the 5 string bass, so I am sure I am going to burn some brain cells on this.

Chili · #9 05-21-2007, 08:08 AM

i started to learn to read music, in the bass book i got, i wasnt doing to bad, but after a while it just started to feel like a waste of time, i dont use it for anything, and i could be spending my time practicing something else, like someone sed, unless you really wonna learn it and you need it, it will be easier to learn since your actually using it, which is practice in itself, if you dont use it for anything, to me, its useless....for now

manbass · #10 05-21-2007, 10:02 AM

I got 7 years on you, yes I did. Its not fun until I got up to reading at playing speed, but a necessity to stay with the gig I have. It takes a certain amount of desire to read, if you have a 60 hour day job and wife/2 kids, but its doable. I took a one week intensive with Jeff Berlin, and now have weekly lessons to keep my "desire" high enough. I also make an effort hang with players that are miles ahead of me, which boosts the desire factor as well.

manbass · #11 05-21-2007, 07:49 PM

Edit to add this about motivation, which I find elusive as I am a snot when it comes to who on the Bass Planet gets me all fired up enough to motivate me long term.....2 words =

Jeff Schmidt.

After discovering him here a year ago, he still fires me up, all I have to do is watch his "Apotheosis" performance and I'm ready to shed. The man is an authentic piece of masterwork, and his "comeback" (sort of) history should be a motivational lesson to us all. You dont have to be in love with his music to see the results of 18 months of hard shedding when a man puts down the mouse and shuts the door...bass underhand as they say. End of rant..thanks for reading....film at 11.

JimmyM · #12 05-22-2007, 12:02 AM

Reading music isn't all that hard. My wife learned how to read music in less than a week when I bought her a piano for Christmas. Granted, she can't read it well, but she knows what the notes are on both clefs and can figure out how to play songs on her own. It does take a lifetime to master, and even the best readers still have to work on it to maintain that level, but the basics can be learned by any person of average intelligence in a very short time.

Benjamin Strange · #13 05-22-2007, 07:01 AM

Go get this book:

It helped me immensely. I hadn't actively read music in 15 years, and all my previous reading was in treble clef. I feel I'm a damn good reader now after slogging through this book.

Fuzzbass · #14 05-22-2007, 07:27 AM

I'm pretty much in the same boat as the OP. I read music very slowly, so I can't honestly claim to be able to read music. But the cover tunes I play I can easily learn by ear. I haven't had a need to read music.

What I really need to do is woodshed on reading charts better! I can read easy charts, but can get thrown off by alternate beginnings, endings, etc.

steve66 · #15 05-24-2007, 07:00 PM

I am 40 and started to play bass about a 18 months ago. I play the drums. I learned to read music treble and bass clef in elementary school even though it wasn't needed for drum music. However, I was taught a trick by a very cool music teacher. It worked well for me.

Get a piece of music you want to learn and get yourself a fine point white and black colored pen or marker.

Make a copy of the music a little larger than normal and write the note name (ex. C,E,) right inside the note notation (not on top of the note).

If the notes happen to be 1/2 or whole notes use the black pen to write the note in.

Sing/say the notes and play them 8x over without mistakes. If you make a mistake, start over and get it right. You won't learn it if you trip it up. I repeat, "You will never learn it correctly that way".

If the phrase (or measure) repeats itself in the music, don't write the notes inside. Instead, sing/say the note names as you play it without looking at the written notes you made earlier. Chances are you will remember the phrase, since you already played it before 8x without mistakes. you did do that right?

As you do this, you will be able to associate common phrases, note sequences and reading music sooner than you think.

Pilgrim · #16 05-25-2007, 09:15 AM

There's an answer for musical questions that I developed for a cou0le of kids I've taught - and it's amazing how often the answer fits:

"The first 100 times you try it, it's going to be difficult."

Repetition and keeping at it will reward you with just about anything in music - reading, technique, developing a new line, etc.

Just keep at it and you'll get there. Remember that the first 100 times you try it, it's gonna be tough. The next 100 times, it will be a bit easier. Repeat as needed.

VroomVroom · #17 05-25-2007, 11:16 AM

You can do it, and I applaud the effort!

Jaco had a quote...something like, "You either read or you don't. There is no middle ground." That's too strong for me, because like any skill, it will atrophy without use. I'm purposefully playing with two bands that see fresh charts every month so I can try to keep working on my reading skills. Anyway, some great thoughts above and I'd like to try to add my little bit...

Practice reading...and writing...slowly. You've got a great advantage - you're a veteran on the instrument. Use that leverage as you apply fingerboard positions as anchors when reading difficult passages. Get some manuscript and notate all of those licks and cool lines you've played for years. Seeing stuff you already know on paper will help you attack this from both ends of the spectrum.

Work on rhythm as well as melody & harmony. Take your time and you'll be amazed at your progress. One thing I've noticed over the years when trying to help folks out with reading is that their sense of time and groove suffers because so much focus is placed on black ink. Remember that, just like with poetry or a great novel, what's written is only as valuable as how it's interpreted.

Two more thoughts and then I'll shut up. First, read anything. Lots of awesome bass method books out there. Trombone books are also great, for example. Get some Real Books in bass clef - a great opportunity to learn all those heads you've wanted to shed. Yada yada...my point is that variety just might be the spice that keeps you going. Second - put yourself in a position to read. Play with a community college big band. Join an R&B band that plays Tower of Power and Earth Wind & Fire charts. If you give yourself a tangible goal to work toward, the reward for your energy will be even stronger.

Have fun!

pointbass · #18 05-25-2007, 11:35 AM

You can definitely do it, just have a bit of patience

FWIW, I've been playing for over 45 years, I graduated from a well known music school, I was a completely full time musician most of my life and I'm now a very active part-time player .... in spite of all that, I find my reading skills dropping dramatically if I don't keep on studying and routinely reading notation.

Once you incorporate reading into your practice routine it will become much easier. There are any number of very good books available to guide you along the way .....