The 80:20 Principle. What do you think?

[Paul4703]

There is a general principle that in any enterprise taken on, 20% of the effort results in 80% of the results. While the other 80% ploughed in yields only a 20% further achievement.

In your opinion what is the 20% of bass learning and skill that is needed to cover 80% of all playing situations?

[Steve]

You mean like, being flashy 20% of the time will get you fired 80% of the time?

[DeluxeRed]

Scales = 80%, modes are the 20%...

But I'm not sure the principal of diminishing returns applies to learning the bass (or any instrument). Maybe on spending money on them, but not the skills themselves. A rarely used skill may be quite critical to a particular expression.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by Paul4703

There is a general principle that in any enterprise taken on, 20% of the effort results in 80% of the results. While the other 80% ploughed in yields only a 20% further achievement.

In your opinion what is the 20% of bass learning and skill that is needed to cover 80% of all playing situations?

Reading standard notation.


/thread

[Michael Case]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Reading standard notation.


/thread

+1

I'd like to add ear training to this too.

[Jazzdogg]

... 80% of the drama in most bands can be traced to one member, who usually comprises about 20% of the band...

...when playing weddings, 80% of a band's future bookings will depend on the satisfaction of 20% of the people in attendance...

In practice, I usually see the 80:20 rule conforming more to a typical bell curve, with 10% at the top, 10% at the bottom, and 80% in the middle. I've seen the 80:20 rule played out in so many places, that it's usually a fair representation of interpersonal dynamics.

[derekd]

I am in business, and I always hear that rule as 80% of the value is in the last 20% of the work. Meaning, that if everyone went that last 20%, the value of the product would go up substantially.

Kinda like the law of diminishing returns. In audio equipment, you get to a point to where you have to spend a bunch more $ to get incremental improvements.

[MikeyB]

I'm in engineering, and I've always known it as the Pareto Principle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

There's even a manufacturing product which is named after this principle:

http://www.8020.net/

But for bass, I'm gonna go artsy and say that 80% is "you just gotta feel it!".

I've heard some technically proficient stuff that just does NOT move me.

-M

[Rickett Customs]

Originally Posted by Steve

You mean like, being flashy 20% of the time will get you fired 80% of the time?

Ha, that's awesome.

[fretlessman71]

Originally Posted by Paul4703

In your opinion what is the 20% of bass learning and skill that is needed to cover 80% of all playing situations?

The final 20%.

/thread

[Paul4703]

Thanks for the replies guys. Most of these have been unhelpful, but amusing.

I posted this because a friend of mine is an orchestral violin player and when she had her first child went part time and took up the guitar with a view to supplementing her income by giving lessons from home. I asked her if eventually she would become as proficient on guitar as she was on the violin and she replied, 'No, that requires far too much study and isn't necessary. I'll learn to play well enough and there's no point in taking it further than that.'

I suppose what I'm getting is what are the core skills to focus on to become a good player. Learning to read standard notation sounds worthwhile and of course developing a good ear. But what else?

[Jim Nazium]

Originally Posted by Paul4703

I suppose what I'm getting is what are the core skills to focus on to become a good player. Learning to read standard notation sounds worthwhile and of course developing a good ear. But what else?

If we restrict the scope of the question for a minute to playing walking bass lines in jazz, then I'd say the 20% is chord tones and just three modes of the major scale: ionian (major), dorian, and mixolydian. You could do a whole gig playing nothing but quarter notes chosen from those, and no one would be put off. You could even play your solos from those choices and sound just fine. The other 80% is the rest of the modes of the major scale, the modes of the harmonic minor scale, chromatic approach notes, etc.

Broadening the scope to all types of music, I think I might still give the same answer. If you can play roots, thirds, and fifths, and occaisionally walk up or down a scale, you can play a decent bass line in most kinds of music. Maybe not a Frank Zappa tune, but you know, basic wedding band material. You just have to be familiar enough with the genre to make R-3-5 sound like reggae, or country, or rock, or whatever.

My $.02

[polsab78]

i'd say learning songs by ear. improves your ear and increases your repertoire at the same time.

[MikeyB]

Originally Posted by Paul4703

...what are the core skills to focus on to become a good player.

Ok, gotcha.

I'll have +1 to basically what Jim said; know this stuff:
Root, Third, Fifth
The Major Scale
The Minor Scale
The Mixolydian Scale
...and be able to play an appropriate rythym for the genre you are performing.

Next, I'd say develop a feel for dynamics - both amplitude and "busyness" in the song - know when to fill in at the end of the line, know how to lead into the change, know when to throw a little tasteful spice in (nothing necessarily fancy, just, say, playing a bit of the melody up an octave and sliding into the next section).

If your'e confident with those bits and have decent feel, you'll be considered a solid player.

-M

[Jazzdogg]

"In your opinion what is the 20% of bass learning and skill that is needed to cover 80% of all playing situations?"


The ability to hear and anticipate intervals and "changes," and the ability to mind-meld with other musicians and play understated lines that are unique yet supportive.

[Intenzity]

Learning the standard repertoire of whatever music you like and having that stuff filed away in your memory.

No one cares really if you know that you can play diminished over a dom7b9 chord...they just want to know if you go to the bridge in "Respect" in the right place and know what the chords are. That matters a lot more for a working band.

So if it is rock - be able to play the 50 tunes every cover band is going to play. Look in the "Band Management" section to see set lists.
Jazz - memorize 50 standards, be able to transpose them etc.
Funk - all the James Brown grooves, Prince etc.

By doing that you will basically have to use all the other things people have pointed out - reading, ear training, rhythm in order to get all the songs covered, either by learning them by ear or by getting sheet music. Avoid tab like it is a highly infectious venereal disease that renders you bald, blind and impotent.

Learning songs is also not an abstract practice technique, you net actual usable results, you can play those songs if they get called or are on a bands set list. Make a playlist in Itunes and play along. Make your own 3 set cover band where you are the bass player and play through the set.

For bass you need good time, good tone and need to know a lot of songs. For most bands you will never be asked to solo (if it is a cover band especially), so spending your time working on that is not going to get you to the place where people want to hire you as a bass player (if that is your goal). If it isn't, then just play what makes you happy.

[BassChuck]

IMHO the 20% effort that yields 80% is work on scales, theory, fretboard knowledge and learning to get around the instrument quickly, easily and gracefully.

The last 20% that takes 80% of the effort is timing, groove, taste, knowledge of styles and the will power not to show off your technique at the detrement of the music. In other words, MUSICIANSHIP.

[emor]

Originally Posted by derekd

80% of the value is in the last 20% of the work.

My new mantra.

We just finished an ordeal with a contractor working on our house who hadn't sufficiently anticipated the complexity of the finish details.

"God is in the details" and "The devil is in the details" seem to be simultaneously true.

[98dvl]

[edit]Just read through the whole thread... What Jim Nazium said... and expanding a bit below....[/edit]

Forget scales...

Learn how to play over chords...

80% of the songs (I'll assume you're in a rock band or even a blues band) you play will consist of the following types of chords: Major, Minor, Dominant 7th, Minor 7th, Major 7th...

For a major chord (i.e. C), the root, 3rd, 5th work well played over that chord (C, E, G in C Major)

For a minor chord (i.e. Cm), the root, b3rd, 5th work well (C, Eb, G in C minor)

For a dominant seventh chord (i.e. C7), the root, 3rd, 5th and b7th work well (C, E, G, Bb in C7)

For a major seventh chord (i.e. CMaj7), the Root, 3rd, 5th, and 7th work well (C, E, G, B for CMaj7)

For a minor seventh chord (i.e. Cm7), the Root, b3rd, 5th, and b 7th work well (C, Eb, G, Bb for Cm7)

Learn where these notes (3rd, b3rd, 5th, b7th, and 7th) are relative to their roots... They're the same anywhere you play up and down the neck (for each root note)... (i.e. finger the notes for C, Cm, C7, CMaj7, Cm7... Then move up two frets, and you can do the same for D, Dm, D7, DMaj7, Dm7... You will see the same pattern)

Once I figured out how easy the above is, I realized that things aren't so complicated as I once thought they are... If you know the chords to a song, and you know the above like the back of your hand, you can fake your way through just about anything.

There are some more "complicated" chords, but it's just more of the same... although, you rarely see diminished, or augmented chords in most rock music (your mileage may vary for different styles of music).

Don't know if that's 20% of music theory (how could you ever quantify?)... but it's not much, yet it covers so much...

I wish someone would have pointed that out to me years ago, instead of me trying to find it out on my own... Sure wish mom would have sprung for a lesson or two when I was younger!

[aus_bass]

80% of your tone is from your fingers. 20% of your tone is from your gear.