abc notation?

[Roadkill]

Am I the only one that uses abc notation for bass line transcriptions?
http://abcnotation.com
Actually I use my own variant that I independently came up with in the late 70's. It'll have more or less detail and rhythm accuracy depending on what I need and how much I'd worked on it. Here's a sample:
Blister in the Sun - Violent Femmes.rtf

[Russell L]

I can't get my head wrapped around it very well. Same with TAB, I just don't like it. I think standard notation is the way. You can even see the rise and fall of the notes, and I think the intervals are easier to visualize. If it works for you, though, have at it.

[Jim Nazium]

Wow, I have been playing guitar & bass for almost 25 30 years and I have never seen that before.

I've often thought that standard notation, and for that matter the whole note naming system, isn't really optimal. But, like the QWERTY keyboard, it's here, it's universal, and it doesn't look like it's going anywhere, so I have learned to live with it.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Jim Nazium

Wow, I have been playing guitar & bass for almost 25 30 years and I have never seen that before.

Note that abc notation was only introduced in 1991, my similar system dates back over ten years previous. I only discovered abc a couple years ago in researching alternative notation systems and found it is remarkably similar. I never came across tablature back then (thankfully!). Unfortunately I tossed out all my sheets when I stopped playing for 20 years .

I've often thought that standard notation, and for that matter the whole note naming system, isn't really optimal. But, like the QWERTY keyboard, it's here, it's universal, and it doesn't look like it's going anywhere, so I have learned to live with it.

The only thing about "Standard Notation" that frosts my arse is key signatures. I actually learned some music theory before I started playing bass. I could get up on semi-sightreading the key of "C" pretty quickly but it seems that you'd then have to learn how to sightread each of the other signatures . With modern software it'd be easy to do "keyless" standard notation and I have thought about "converting" to that but I have found some value in sharing out my charts to the guitarists in the bands to give them a start on figuring out the chords and structures of songs we do. Standard notation wouldn't be of any value to most of them .

I've also recently found out my "system" is close enough to what iRealB uses that I can jam jazz standards from that pretty good - although I do prefer sheet music with chords noted. I did do a bit of choral singing 30+ years ago (second bass of course ) so I can kinda follow the "trend" of the notes to know where I am and where the rests are .

[Febs]

Originally Posted by Roadkill

The only thing about "Standard Notation" that frosts my arse is key signatures. I actually learned some music theory before I started playing bass. I could get up on semi-sightreading the key of "C" pretty quickly but it seems that you'd then have to learn how to sightread each of the other signatures . With modern software it'd be easy to do "keyless" standard notation and I have thought about "converting" to that but I have found some value in sharing out my charts to the guitarists in the bands to give them a start on figuring out the chords and structures of songs we do. Standard notation wouldn't be of any value to most of them

"Keyless" standard notation is much harder to read.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Russell L

Same with TAB, I just don't like it.

Looking at tab reminds me of coloring books LOL. I have transcribed tab into my system on occasion but usually just start from a chord chart if I can find one.

[blakelock]

this is very similar to the presentation i've seen in folk tune songbooks. i think it's fine for quick shorthand but FAR less versatile than standard notation. the abc notation for notes of different lengths and rests is nearly unusable even for relatively simple songs...but i imagine you could teach your brain to do these gymnastics just like you could teach it to read standard.

good luck!

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by blakelock

I imagine you could teach your brain to do these gymnastics just like you could teach it to read standard.

Actually the gymnastics of dealing with different key signatures is what puts me off of standard notation .

good luck!

Thanks, but I was just wondering if anyone besides myself uses a similar system. I do like knowing what notes I'm playing vs a "tab player" who just knows what frets to play .

[AMp'D.2play]

I use a crude variation of this when I'm scribbling down notes on a section of a song I'm working on when I'm pressed for time. I never knew it actually had a name and someone developed a system based on it!

My similarity to this guy's method is I'll use upper case letters, and if there are any octaves in the section, I'll use lower case letters for those. I don't include any reference to rhythm since this is only for those cases where I know how the song (or section) goes in my head.

It's not optimal, but it's quick. I much prefer it to tab (which I hate & avoid at all costs) because at least I'm looking at the actual note name & not a number that indicates a string/fret position.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by AMp'D.2play

My similarity to this guy's method is I'll use upper case letters, and if there are any octaves in the section, I'll use lower case letters for those.

Yes, I do that too!
E F F#/Gb G G#/Ab A A#/Bb B C C#/Db D D#/eb e f f#/gb g g#/ab a a#/bb b c c#/db d d#

For readability I use Arial 28pt with 24pt for sharps and flats and maybe minors (like am) with 14pt blank lines between sections.

I don't include any reference to rhythm since this is only for those cases where I know how the song (or section) goes in my head.

I try to roughly notate rhythm by something like:
|A| (full note)
|A B| or |AB| (half notes)
|A x| or |Ax| (half note and half rest)
|A - B C| or |A BC| (half note followed by two quarter notes)
|A- -B C- D-| or |A -B C D| or |A--B CD| (3/8 note, 1/8 note, two quarter notes.)
|A8| (straight eighth notes)

I don't do anything finer that eighth notes and often "simplify" to quarter or half notes and rely on memory for the exact rhythm. I'll use the "shorter forms" above if it helps fit it all on one sheet or (more recently) one screen. Rather than print them out for a rehearsal I'll bring the computer or iPad. Two of the three places I rehearse/jam at have WiFi - I use Google Drive to share out the charts and MP3's to my iPad and others in the bands.

[JimmyM]

It's lovely, but no better than tab IMHO. For example, what octave do you start at? Also, writing lines with 16th notes will be unwieldy at best. Standard notation is the language of communication for all instruments, and it will always be thus. It's been around for so long, all instruments use it, and it's so well-established that nothing can top it. I say why fight it?

[wrench45us]

There's a similar note name based system that's used in the gospel community where not everyone reads music. The notes are written out left to right, left hand | right hand usually to block out the chords and the player sorts out the melody line.

So looking at this horizontal scheme and knowing a little about this vertical scheme -- well it's got to be one or the other -- which is sort of the shortcoming.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by wrench45us

There's a similar note name based system that's used in the gospel community where not everyone reads music. The notes are written out left to right, left hand | right hand usually to block out the chords and the player sorts out the melody line.

I'd like to see an example of that .

[AMp'D.2play]

Can't say I disagree with anything you've mentioned regarding the superiority of notation, but ...

Originally Posted by JimmyM

It's lovely, but no better than tab IMHO.

Instead of making things easier, tab actually complicates things for me. If I look at a tab, my pea brain adds an unnecessary step. Instead of seeing E-5 and going to the 5th fret of the E string, I first convert that to an A, and then play an A.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

For example, what octave do you start at?

In my 1st post above, I mentioned that in its limited use for me, I have to already be somewhat familiar w/ the song. So I already know which note(s) I'll be playing & where. The stuff I play rarely exceeds 2 octaves, so a simple A/a, B/b, C/c, etc. is adequate.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Standard notation is the language of communication for all instruments, ...

I use it exclusively as a method for myself. I don't intend to share my "chart" with anyone, so there's no communication involved.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

... and it's so well-established that nothing can top it. I say why fight it?

There are those times where I may not have my laptop (which includes Finale notation software) or a book of staff paper. If I want to jot down a particular fill on a chord sheet or just some blank sheet of lined paper, this gets the job done in a pinch.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by AMp'D.2play

Instead of making things easier, tab actually complicates things for me. If I look at a tab, my pea brain adds an unnecessary step. Instead of seeing E-5 and going to the 5th fret of the E string, I first convert that to an A, and then play an A.

Exactly. I don't want to ever learn to "sight read" tab - I think it would be a step backwards .

The stuff I play rarely exceeds 2 octaves, so a simple A/a, B/b, C/c, etc. is adequate.

On a four string that covers all the notes on the first 7 frets - everything except the "showoff" notes .

I use it exclusively as a method for myself. I don't intend to share my "chart" with anyone, so there's no communication involved.

As I said the guitarists have found my charts somewhat useful too. I now leave the chord names in (if there is room) to help them (assuming I'm starting from a chord chart) . I'll also put fragments on my setlists, keeping that down to where I can still get an entire setlist on one sheet readable from the floor .

[Schmorgy]

Originally Posted by AMp'D.2play

Instead of making things easier, tab actually complicates things for me. If I look at a tab, my pea brain adds an unnecessary step. Instead of seeing E-5 and going to the 5th fret of the E string, I first convert that to an A, and then play an A.

Technically, that's the point of Tab.

Tabbers typically hear it the same way and play it different ways, but all the ways are means to the same end. The only reason to play it differently is efficiency and direction (next note higher on the neck? Lower?). If you're seeing a tab written as a fret, and interpreting it to an actual note in your brain, you're doing the right thing since blindly following tab makes you very good at knowing where your frets are and very bad at knowing the fretboard itself.

[INTP]

I don't get the point of alternate musical notations such as letter notation or TAB. Standard musical notation is really not hard, and the alternate methods all seem to be lacking the information in some way (e.g. time info in TAB). Or when they do include it, it's much less easy to read than standard notation would be. It just seems like a lot of effort and in the end it avoids something simple and elegant in favor of something awkward and messy.

Since you asked...

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by INTP

Since you asked...

Didn't actually .

The "point" of abc notation is that it is ASCII - you can't type "standard notation" without special software. While MusicXML is a standard for computer based standard notation (and if you're a total geek perhaps you can even type it ) you can't sightread it like you can abc.

In any case I was only asking if anyone else was using it or a variant thereof .

FWIW there is software that can convert abc to standard and MusicXML to abc .

[Ed Fuqua]

I'm not sure I get how this works, the key signature is G major but there's no F#, just F. If I'm supposed to understand that because of the key signature F is actually F#, how do you notate any secondary key centers? Write me out the melody in the bridge to HAVE YOU MET MISS JONES....

[BassChuck]

OP-Seems like you've worked as hard to understand this as you would have to learn standard notation. You have to be careful when re-inventing the wheel. That kind of thinking could, in its extreme, lead to candidacy for public office.