abc notation?

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

I'm not sure I get how this works, the key signature is G major but there's no F#, just F. If I'm supposed to understand that because of the key signature F is actually F#, how do you notate any secondary key centers? Write me out the melody in the bridge to HAVE YOU MET MISS JONES....

"True" abc notation uses a "K:G" to set the key to "G" and can change it to another key "on the fly" with another "K" directive. Notes use "^F" for sharp, "=F" for natural and "_F" for flat. I've always just "wrote" in "C" no matter what the actual key and used "F#" for sharp and "Fb" for flat.
http://abcnotation.com/wiki/abc:standard:v2.1

Dunno if that answered your question but you're a step or two above where my knowledge of music theory ends here LOL.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by BassChuck

OP-Seems like you've worked as hard to understand this as you would have to learn standard notation. You have to be careful when re-inventing the wheel. That kind of thinking could, in its extreme, lead to candidacy for public office.

I'm not trying to "understand" abc notation at all - I'm just asking if anyone uses it or a similar system. Again my "variant" predates the initial abc notation standard by 10+ years and started out as just the notes written out with the measures marked off - "true" abc notation is quite a bit more verbose and only of interest to me in its similarities and the potential to "steal" useful things from it .

[wrench45us]

I couldn't find the gospel site that included 'files' written in the left han right hand ascii notation I was trying to describe

but

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/...ians%2F5139624

that link isn't going where I hoped
Do a 'Look Inside' and go to the page 3rd down in the leftmost column


the lower section of the page has a similar ascii note name notation (in this case for simple 2 note chords). Note that the flow goes top to bottom vertical with the chord spelled out horizontally -- exact opposite of staff notation.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by BassChuck

OP-Seems like you've worked as hard to understand this as you would have to learn standard notation. You have to be careful when re-inventing the wheel. That kind of thinking could, in its extreme, lead to candidacy for public office.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Roadkill]

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by Roadkill

Didn't actually .

The "point" of abc notation is that it is ASCII - you can't type "standard notation" without special software. While MusicXML is a standard for computer based standard notation (and if you're a total geek perhaps you can even type it ) you can't sightread it like you can abc.

In any case I was only asking if anyone else was using it or a variant thereof .

FWIW there is software that can convert abc to standard and MusicXML to abc .

Since it was developed to be typed, that ment putting paper in a typewriter, typing out what you wanted, then sending it by post to the person you want to read it.
So back then it could just be done as easy with SN using a pen and paper. I cannot see the point of not learning SN if music is to be your pursuit in life. I can see the use of checking it out, the same way checking out Tab can have a few benefits, but SN and experience will usually cover all musical situations.

What seems to be the problem is SN interacting with modern technology. As said software is needed for it to be used, but its not the software....it's the keyboard. If the keyboard represented SN symbols there would be no problem as such.
A Qwerty keyboard is as useless to SN as it is to typing Chinese. So for me it is not SN that is the problem, it is technology's inability to handle it....yet.
If simple pen and paper can handle SN, then as more touch screen technology develops I would assume writing SN on a screen will not be so difficult.

[wrench45us]

There are people who occasaionally show up on home studio/ DAW forums that ask why music isn't written in piano roll notation -- as piano roll is pretty universal in that sort of music software.
Standard notation is the exception and a 'sales feature' in home studio software. For one thing it's much easier to develop and support a piano roll editor than it is an equally functional standard notation editor.
But it is a tough argument to make to tell peopel who came up with piano roll editors that they would be served to learn satandard notation. This gets messy when they want to learn 'theory' and there aren't a lot of theory texts written for piano roll.

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

What seems to be the problem is SN interacting with modern technology. As said software is needed for it to be used, but its not the software....it's the keyboard. If the keyboard represented SN symbols there would be no problem as such.
A Qwerty keyboard is as useless to SN as it is to typing Chinese. So for me it is not SN that is the problem, it is technology's inability to handle it....yet.
If simple pen and paper can handle SN, then as more touch screen technology develops I would assume writing SN on a screen will not be so difficult.

For some considerable time now, graphical user interfaces on computers have already been making production of standard notation pretty straightforward with the right editing software - like Sibelius, Finale etc. There's even quite powerful stuff available these days as genuine "freeware":

http://musescore.org/

Of course, you need to be able to read it before you can write it.

[Clef_de_fa]

to me it is standart notation or lead sheet like in a Real book.

If I have to write something to remember it ... I use music sheet with a pencil.




What the OP use, I saw that on the web on a few occasion but I find it kind of wierd. Because there is no structure or rythm, nor any octave where it is played ... it just feel like it doesn't matter at all ... only the lyrics and chords are important ... you could play it hundreds of different way and it won't matter at all.

[N.F.A.]

I have a bunch of old Celtic stuff from my bouzouki playing days in abc format. It was more popular 17 years ago when the internet was younger.

[MarkMgibson]

This seems a very cumbersome method to me. A three minute song could take a hell of a lot of pages to notate with this system. Tab is useful on a guitar as their as so many ways of playing the same notes, but with Bass guitar, I think traditional musical notation is the easiest. You can even get software that will convert anything into the key of C if that's a problem for you. I have a free program for standard notation, and it's simple to use.

Still, if it works for you, then there's certainly no reason not to use it.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

This seems a very cumbersome method to me. A three minute song could take a hell of a lot of pages to notate with this system.

Rock songs tend to be highly repetitive, it's rarely a problem to fit one on a single sheet. Did you examine the example I gave in the first post? 12 lines including title and blank lines .

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

What the OP use, I saw that on the web on a few occasion but I find it kind of wierd. Because there is no structure or rythm, nor any octave where it is played ...

What I use (and true abc notation) does.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by Roadkill

Rock songs tend to be highly repetitive, it's rarely a problem to fit one on a single sheet. Did you examine the example I gave in the first post? 12 lines including title and blank lines .

No, I didn't look at the example before, but I see your point. Anything that helps communicate musical ideas from one musician to another if fine with me. The method of communicating those ideas is irrelevant really.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

No, I didn't look at the example before, but I see your point. Anything that helps communicate musical ideas from one musician to another if fine with me. The method of communicating those ideas is irrelevant really.

Actually the idea here is to communicate with myself LOL. I like to have the structure written out so I can "keep to it" when others mess it up in rehearsals and I can show/tell them how it actually goes . Half the projects I'm in have "learn by ear" guitarists .

[mambo4]

I sure wish Notation were as simple to write as text on the web.
This forum would be quite different.

[Anonymatt]

Roadkill, reading standard notation is simple. I can't think of any situation where a teacher would assess a student incapable of learning it and advise of an alternate method. You'll see some letters taped on piano keys and associations of the note C w/ a pic of a Cat and so forth, but these are just training wheels for mastering notation.

You could be doing it very well in a year's time, especially w/ your musical knowledge. It is only momentarily disappointing to not be able to sightread things you can already play. Even if you have a terminal illness, if the doctor says you have 6 months to live, it would be worth your time to learn standard notation!

Key signatures are simple. Even when you get to crazy keys w/ six sharps or flats.
You tend to become accustomed to playing in different keys sequentially.
Because of this, the mental process as you are beginning to play a piece in Ab (four flats) would be:

"Even Db and all the rest [Bb Eb Ab that you are familiar w/ already]."

I could maybe understand the ABC thing if you are a computer programmer by trade and have some nerd kink for notational systems in different disciplines. But my frank assessment of your situation is that you have spent maybe 5 minutes being confused by reading keys and are emotionally sheltering yourself from this frustration by using energy to explore sub-optimal alternatives.

[Anonymatt]

Originally Posted by mambo4

I sure wish Notation were as simple to write as text on the web.
This forum would be quite different.

As easy as it is to snap a picture of your cat w/ a bass and post it on here?

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by mambo4

I sure wish Notation were as simple to write as text on the web.

That is the (one?) benefit of abc .

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Anonymatt

You could be doing it very well in a year's time, especially w/ your musical knowledge.

Sight reading bass clef isn't particularly useful to me - not many rock lines written out out there and (at the moment anyways) comping jazz lines off of chord charts is plenty good for what I do. I'll never do session or theatrical work.

I could maybe understand the ABC thing if you are a computer programmer by trade.

How'd yah guess?

But my frank assessment of your situation is that you have spent maybe 5 minutes being confused by reading keys and are emotionally sheltering yourself from this frustration by using energy to explore sub-optimal alternatives.

Again I've been doing this since the 70's. If there had existed software to do standard notation back then I might well have gone that way. However even now I suspect it's faster to write out lines and learn them my way than the "right" way.

I'm curious how many of yous guys that can, write out the bass lines (and song forms) in standard notation to learn them (and keep the other players "honest") or just learn them "by ear" because writing them out in standard notation is too much of a PITA?