Adjusting to playing without a drummer. Help?

[markob]

The frustration is mounting. I play in a worship band so the dynamic is a bit different than most enviroments were music is played for the listening public. Seldom if ever do we have a drummer at rehearsal and rarely of late do we have one on Sundays. We have a 2nd guitarist that plays congas on about 3/4 of the set but personally I have a difficult time locking in with a way over the top conga beat for this style of music. I guess I need to vent more than anything but it's taking the joy right out of playing. I know and understand that in this setting it's about the worship not so much about the quality, if you will. How do you folks adjust your technique, mind-set, style when playing w/o drums or playing with a way too busy conga player? Maybe I should have placed this in the P&W thread but hopefully we can discuss this in a mature manner without personal opinions on faith and the like. Thanks.

mark

[clutebass]

This may not be what you are looking for but whenever I play with someone on bongos or congas, I usually just try to lock in with the acoustic or rhythm guitarist. Seems to still hold the groove together. I am sure others have better advice though!

[jallenbass]

That's a tough position to be in. You can't really tell him to chill out without hurting his feelings because he's having such a good time "expressing" himself. As primarily a jazz player who plays mostly without drums I am the time and it takes awhile to get used to that. As long as I know that the other musicians are listening to me for time then I don't worry too much about a busy percussionist.

[MalcolmAmos]

Can not imagine praise music with a conga beat. But, I do play bass without a drummer. I lock in with the vocalist. Sing the lyrics, under my breath, along with the vocalist.

[cthomas5200]

Originally Posted by clutebass

This may not be what you are looking for but whenever I play with someone on bongos or congas, I usually just try to lock in with the acoustic or rhythm guitarist. Seems to still hold the groove together. I am sure others have better advice though!

+1 I lock in on the acoustic and try to be more of the setter of the "beat". It is a challenge. I also spend a lot of time recruiting a drummer!!!

[sammyp]

Originally Posted by markob

The frustration is mounting. I play in a worship band so the dynamic is a bit different than most enviroments were music is played for the listening public. Seldom if ever do we have a drummer at rehearsal and rarely of late do we have one on Sundays. We have a 2nd guitarist that plays congas on about 3/4 of the set but personally I have a difficult time locking in with a way over the top conga beat for this style of music. I guess I need to vent more than anything but it's taking the joy right out of playing. I know and understand that in this setting it's about the worship not so much about the quality, if you will. How do you folks adjust your technique, mind-set, style when playing w/o drums or playing with a way too busy conga player? Maybe I should have placed this in the P&W thread but hopefully we can discuss this in a mature manner without personal opinions on faith and the like. Thanks.

mark

guitarist doubling on congas? LOL ok ...we empathize.

i guess i would feel when there is no drummer you are the time boss so you really gotta take the reigns and hold it down - you have to be assertive and lead! .....the conga guy should take a back seat a bit if he is weak and make an effort to lock in with you rather than vice versa.....if he can't he needs to know his place and play less and quietly.

if he can't get it better you need to move him away from you on stage so he doesn't mess with your feel!

he should listen to Stand by Me and other bass featured old school tunes ...cause with no drummer that's kinda what you'll be doing......the percussion wraps around the bass ....not vice versa!

[markob]

Great points guys. Please keep them coming.

[Jinro]

I had a similar question, about bass without drums, and was told that walking basslines would do the job. Only problem is I can't make walking basslines yet

[gnjpowell]

Is a good challenge and will make you a better bassist.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by Jinro

I had a similar question, about bass without drums, and was told that walking basslines would do the job. Only problem is I can't make walking basslines yet

Making them is easy. Start with just the notes of the chord. Hard part is getting them all in before the music goes off and leaves you.

Ed's Building Walking Bass Lines ..... Has chord progressions and a CD to play along with.
Page 55 Satin Doll - track # 46. Dm7 R-b3-5-b7, G7 R-3-5-b7, Em7 R-b3-5-b7, A7 R-3-5-b7, etc.
Page 56 Out of Nowhere - track # 47.
Page 57 All of me - track # 48.
Page 58 Yard-bird suite - track # 49.
Page 59 Blues - track # 50.
Page 60 There Will Never Be Another You - track # 51.
Page 61 Like Someone in Love track # 52.
Page 62 Autumn Leaves track # 53.
Page 63 Donna Lee track # 54.
Page 64 Days Of Wine And Roses track # 55.

See how many chord tones you can get in before the music goes off and leaves you.

Have fun.

[Mayers]

Well I'm a weird cat in the bass world but I'm happy to do something else than 98% of the bass world.

So I don't listen to the drum, never.

I listen to the guitar and play somewhat of a melody to go along what he3she does while filling a little the lows.

[Jinro]

Making them is easy. Start with just the notes of the chord. Hard part is getting them all in before the music goes off and leaves you.

The part I'm having difficulty with is making the last chord tone of the measure close to the root of the next chord, both in sound and physical location on the fretboard. On the last beat before the new chord I play a chord tone, like the 7th for example, that's an octave + x_steps above the root of the next chord and it just sounds awful. That and my fingers are so far away from next root chord that it's one giant leap for the phalanges

[MalcolmAmos]

If it was easy everyone would be playing bass. LOL

Last walking note. Several ways to walk to the next chord.
Secondary dominants. What is the 5th of the next chord. Let that be your last note in the chord before the change. Why? Dominants like to move to the tonic. Using the dominant note of the coming up chord pulls you into the up coming chord.

Chromatic movement. Target the next chord's root and miss it by one fret then move to the next chord's root.
Country will miss the next chord's root by three frets then walk one fret per beat and be on the root for the chord change. You are playing R-5 under the C chord and need to get to the F chord. Leave early with a run D, D#, E and land on F for the chord change. Going from F to G. Back up one fret E, F, F# and land on G for the chord change. OK time to get back to the C. Drop down grab D#, D, C# and land on C for the chord change. Leaving early and landing on the next root for the chord change will take some practice, but, it's not rocket science, in an hour you will have it down.

Is there more? Sure. Ed wrote several books on this subject. Pick a couple of ways that match with the music you play. Chromatic movement works with the Country music I play.

Have fun.

[Jinro]

I guess I need to learn how to find the 5th of the next chord without thinking about it. I'm typically only one note ahead of myself when playing. Walking lines seem to require you to know 4 notes ahead....at the least.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by Jinro

I guess I need to learn how to find the 5th of the next chord without thinking about it. I'm typically only one note ahead of myself when playing. Walking lines seem to require you to know 4 notes ahead....at the least.

See a major chord coming up. R-3-5-8 is a generic bass line that will work under any major chord.

See a minor chord coming up. R-b3-5-8 is a generic bass line that will work under any minor chord.

Get that down and worry about hooking the next chord later. Goal; get four notes in a measure before the music goes off and leaves you. When you can do that then worry about a more sophisticated movement.

Or just do chromatics.

[Jinro]

Then I'm basically practicing arpeggios to a sophisticated metronome

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes. That's step one. Practice with a play-a-long CD. As your skill level develops there are many more "things" awating you.

Ed's Building Walking Bass Lines ..... Has chord progressions and a CD to play along with.
Page 55 Satin Doll - track # 46. Dm7 R-b3-5-b7, G7 R-3-5-b7, Em7 R-b3-5-b7, A7 R-3-5-b7, etc.

Once that flows movement to the next chord can enter the picture. But, it's first necessary to to be able to include four notes per meassure and still keep the beat. That may be a generic R-5-8-5 right at first with a goal of inserting the correct 3 and 7 later. THEN worry with hooking the chords together much later.

Yep, then there is that ole beat thing. The beat is step one, every thing else is gravy.

[251]

Originally Posted by markob

The frustration is mounting. I play in a worship band so the dynamic is a bit different than most enviroments were music is played for the listening public. Seldom if ever do we have a drummer at rehearsal and rarely of late do we have one on Sundays.

<snip>

How do you folks adjust your technique, mind-set, style when playing w/o drums or playing with a way too busy conga player? Maybe I should have placed this in the P&W thread but hopefully we can discuss this in a mature manner without personal opinions on faith and the like. Thanks.

mark

Simplify what you play & be the metronome. Play reference tones for the vocalist(s) to fine tune their intonation.

[smeet]

What kind of a tone are you using?
I have found that without a drummer, you want to BE the drummer, so a more percussive sound with less sustain is good. Flatwounds with foam mute under the bridge, played with a pick. That might be too much, but you get the idea. The highs and high mids that sound good with a drummer might stand out as too harsh when there are no cymbals or snare.

You might even consider a slight scoop to your eq, something I would rarely do with a drummer, but with no drums to cover up your notes, it *might* sound pretty good.

Oh yeah, and as has been said, play simply and clearly, roots, fifths, be a metronome that also outlines the harmony.

[JimK]

Originally Posted by Mayers

Well I'm a weird cat in the bass world but I'm happy to do something else than 98% of the bass world.

So I don't listen to the drum, never.

I listen to the guitar and play somewhat of a melody to go along what he3she does while filling a little the lows.

...I guess that may work for 2% of the music out there...so, I guess you're all set for that.

Suppose (God forbid) there's not a guitar in the band?
Believe it or not, some bands may only have keys/bass/drums...others may be 2 horns/bass/drums (probably the most fun/freedom I've everhad in a band situation).
Bass (& guitar & keys) are part of the rhythm section. If I wanna cop/steal some rhythms...it's going to be from the guy most versed in that component (98% of the time, it's the drummer).

YMMV.