Advancing with a bass - Confused

[tbei]

I bought a bass in April this year (my first). I've been playing for a short while now mainly learning out of books and online tutorials. For the most part I have just been learning my favourites songs aswell as more recently scales, chord patterns and common bass patterns.

My main aim is to play and sing in a band but I am not sure if I am actually good enough to do this. Many of the online tutorials tell you to get straight into a band with little practice as it will help you improve. My main issue with this is that I am not sure how it would work if you don't know what you are supposed to play. Learning all these octaves, chord patterns and common bass patterns is all very well but I don't know how they would slot in- I have read a little about them complementing chords in which there are the same notes/same lead-up notes but it's all a bit confusing.

The main things I would like to get out of this post are:
At what standard do you really NEED to be to play in a band, genre's ranging from Indie to Punk to Metal? For example do you need to be able to write your own bassline to complement a guitar chord pattern? Read music so you can choose a note selection?

Also, what is the best way to progress from playing scales and patterns?

Thanks in advance, I know this is a very wordy set of questions and not very clear but any help is appreciated!

Sam

[mister-o]

FWIW, I started advancing the most once I started taking lessons. Money well spent.

Each band is probably different in terms of the independence and contribution they will expect out of you, but since I've only ever jammed with friends I can't speak to that very meaningfully. Probably wouldn't want to join a jazz band unless you're comfortable reading charts. Many rockers probably are not that formal.

[ColdSteelRain]

I think a couple of lessons with a live instructor would help you out a lot. They can give you some feedback on if you should start looking for a band or if you should practice a bit more.

If you can pound out eighth root notes and stay in time, you can get by in rock. Not saying that'll be a particularly good bass line, but if you can't do at least that, you need more practice.

You don't have to read music to play. You do need to be able to read a lead sheet/chord sheet and find the root notes on the fretboard.

[tbei]

I can find roots on a fretboard (slowly ) and I can songs like 'By the Way' and 'Under the Bridge' by the RHCP pretty well.

[Jake of Bass]

Just be patient with it. It's easy to get overwhelmed in the beginning. All that stuff just takes time to learn, understand and then apply.

At the moment if you can play songs along to the recordings and do it well (keeping in time is especially important) then looking to start jamming with some mates is a great idea. Like some other people said, getting some bass lessons is really beneficial too. A good bass tutor can really pinpoint where you are, what you're doing well, what you need to change or work on and all in a way that facilitates this learning in a step-by-step process. They'll challenge you but only in ways they think you're up to the challenge.

Practice to a metronome. Very important. Then when you're playing with a competent drummer locking in with them will be that much easier and they'll like jamming with you too.

Hope that helps.

[mfratt]

I've been playing for a year now, and for the first eight or so months, I felt like I was never going to get good enough to be in a band, let alone be the type of bassist that I would like to be.

Now, I look back and I see a whole ton of improvement, and I can see what lies before me and the hurdles I must overcome - but most importantly I see that I can become the bassist I want to be. Its just practice and time. Not an easy road, though, when you take your inspiration from bassists like Geddy Lee

[DocBop]

If you're not good enough for a band just find some people to sit and play tunes with. After time it could turning into a gigging band. But playing with others and learning the role of the instrument important.

[brotherdoc]

If it's difficult for you to find root notes on the fretboard, I'd stick with the rudiments for awhile longer. Play along with songs that you are familiar with, but don't look at the tab for them. Work out the root pattern the old fashion way.
My opinion is if you join a 'band' to early, you're going to be heckled or scorned for maybe not knowing or able to play your part well enough. I would recommend finding some friends to jam with. In person musical interaction is important... esp. with the drummer. Pay careful attention to the kick drum.

[tobie]

Originally Posted by DocBop

If you're not good enough for a band just find some people to sit and play tunes with.

Good advice! You'd want to do that before playing live anyway!

[spiltmilk_2000]

Originally Posted by tobie

Good advice! You'd want to do that before playing live anyway!

+1! try and find friends who are just a little bit more advanced than you to spur you on but not so advancd that what they are playing will bamboozle you! perhaps if youve been playing 6 months find a friend who's been playing a year...

keep it informal, be upfront that they may have to be patient at first while you find your feet and let them know you will be dedicated to improving. If you jam regularly with a few guys before you know it, you'll be in a band that starts to sound good enough to play live! :-)

from my perspective being in a band is 10% inspiraton and 90% perspiration... i would rather be in a band with someone who could play the simple things proficiently and was enthusiastic, reliable, and fun to be around, rather than an amazing musician with none of the other qualities!

play, play, play :-)

[Bruce Lindfield]

I think the thing you need to do mostly - apart from what has already been said, is to immerse yourself in the kind of music you want to play.

So listen to recordings and try to play those bass lines - go to gigs and follow what the bass player is doing.

But none of this will really prepare you for the situation where you are having to provide the bassline yourself, to be that anchor with nobody else to rely on - that's why people say you should get to play with other people as soon as you can.

So it's very different playing along when you know that you can stop and it won't fall apart. Building up that self-reliance and self-confidence is probably your most important lesson and can't be achieved any other way - when it's up to you, that's when you really start learning what it's all about!

[Jake of Bass]

Yeah attitude goes a very long way when forming a band - sometimes tighter than a family, you're forming a close nit and sometimes fairly personal as well as professional relationship with your band mates... if you're easy to get along with as well as have something to offer, no matter how small you may think it to be, it's all valuable.

[Tenma4]

FWIW, something I did when I first started was to play along with the radio. Pick a station that you can live with, and try to play every song that comes on, even if you don't like it. It will help you to grow. This was a great tool for me. If you can't stand the radio, try Last.FM. It won't teach you technique, but it can be great ear training.

[tbei]

Thanks for your advice guys.

I think I will start jamming with a few people to see how it goes. I feel a little overwhelmed with all the tutorials on the internet while really I can just work through them slowly.

[TheoFly]

Another good thing to know, that is easy to pick up quick, is the chord progression for blues: I-IV-V.

You can just play basic meat and potatoes figures from each of the three chords using the root, third, and fifth. With that you will keep an aspiring blues guitarist happy with your work for hours while he goes weedle-weedle-weedle ...

This is actually the basis for about a zillion different songs, so if you get comfortable playing over that progression you can do lots of jamming and sound fairly competent.

This site has info on blues progressions. There are many others:

http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdiction...ogression.html

[dave64o]

Originally Posted by mister-o

FWIW, I started advancing the most once I started taking lessons. Money well spent.

The first sentence of the first response sums it up.

I've been playing 7 or 8 years doing exactly what the same kinds of things you've been doing - doing online lessons and exercises, trying a books, playing along with songs I either liked or thought sounded fun to play, etc. I did OK with that but always felt like I could do more.

I finally started taking lessons six weeks ago and simply found that my instructor's expectations is an incredible motivator. Also, having live interaction with an instructor will help you start out with good technique so you don't have to unlearn bad habits years from now. For never having had lessons and having very little band experience on bass, my instructor thought I was doing pretty well. However, unlelarning those few bad habits that are deeply ingrained is the biggest problem for me right now. Not only do I have a surprisingly hard time with some exercises while correcting those habits, I'm also having a hell of a time re-training myself to play songs I've been playing for years. It's sometimes as is my fingers have never played those songs before and it gets frustrating, but I know I'll be better off farther down the line so I keep working at it.

Regarding being in a band, I think the easiest way is to find a group that's at about your level, or better still just a little bit beyond your level, and also has a similar work ethic. Then push each other to tackle tough material, play tighter, and to do improvised jams.

Best of all is the combination of decent instruction and playing with others. That would advance most people FAR beyond what online lessons would ever be able to do for them.

[mambo4]

Best thing I ever did for learning was joining a band with superior, more experienced players. That's the express lane for practical skill building.

Lessons I would think a very close second to that. There may be some things a band will ignore that a teacher can correct.

[Stumbo]

To be in a band IME, you need to be able to learn/memorize songs quickly, need to know basic music theory (keys, scales, related notes), know the difference among the different types of music: blues, funk, rock, metal, etc and which style of bass applies to each, how to listen to the other players, have decent equipment and a positive attitude. Knowing the blues intimately will definitely be worth your while. Possibly getting some "slow downer" software where you can slow down the songs and loop them may help you learn them more quickly.

Jamming is a great way to get into the "band mode".

Here are some links that I've collected along the way that may help you out:

Must reads:
If only I knew then what I know now... If I only knew then
Best musical advice you ever got Best musical advice
Things every bassist should know? Things every bassist should know

Band stuff
How to fire someone from a band How to fire a band member
Starting a cover/tribute band from scratch Starting a new band- how to audition

Band Practice Tips? Band practice tips
Band practice efficiency Band practice efficiency
How often does your band rehearse? How often to have a band practice

Learning stuff
Practice Practice Practice How to practice bass
Pacman's sure-fire scale practice method How to practice

Reading Music Learn to read music
I need to learn how to read music for bass, how do i do it? Learn to read music
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f22/sight-reading-486398-post6521582/ Improve site reading
Need help reading bass clef Read bass clef
Introduction to Scale and Chord Theory Intro to scale and chord theory
Theory Forum FAQ and Links Theory
I need basic music theory help... Theory
Introduction to Scale and Chord Theory Theory (from the DB side of TB)
jazz scales? not played bass in over a year Jazz Scales


looking for "the bass guitar bible!" Bass "Bible"
Book list for GI Theory Links Theory Book Links
Music Theory/General Instruction Links GI links list

Blues Turnarounds Blues Turn arounds
Modes...How to use them practically in music. Using modes
what is in front of/behind the beat? Playing behind/ahead of the beat

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f30/creating-bass-lines-8154/#post80043 Creating bass lines
Bass Line Construction: Target Approach Creating bass lines
http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.p...arget_Approach Creating bass lines


Guitar players as bass players...... Guitar players switching to bass

Online study of music theory/ear training.
http://www.teoria.com/ Check out the tutorials, exercises and reference(dictionary).
http://www.good-ear.com/
http://www.studybass.com/
http://www.activebass.com/
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...lineScreen.swf Test your ear

Books and instructional materials
http://www.bassbooks.com/shopping/default.asp

Free Jam tracks
http://www.freejamtracks.com/index.html

Free online lessons
A LOT of Free Lessons, how to's and other stuff from me! Dman
Who do you think has the best lessons on youtube? Who's the best youtube bass teacher?


Transcribing/Slowing down songs/Looping software
Software for Transcribing?
A way to slow down MP3s without altering the pitch?
I need software to slow down a song so its easier to learn

This is a very helpful program for learning the notes on the bass clef. (as recommended by AlphaMale)
http://www.download.com/NoteCard/300...cdlPid=1509909
http://www.playthebass.com print flashcards for learning bass clef, print staff paper

[AndreasMergner]

I've been playing a year now. I've been taking lessons since I started. If you have the right teacher, it will help a ton! A teacher will see your mistakes when you see none. Also they can tell you easy ways of doing things and help clear up questions on theory. It may seem expensive, but it is worth it.

I just started in a band a few weeks ago. I cannot recommend it enough, especially if you find a group that is willing to give you a try at your experience level. Learning to play with others is not something you can do by yourself! You will still want an instructor because band members will probably not want to tell you what you are doing wrong. That is not really your place. You should be able to play in a steady rhythm, know where notes are, and know basic major and minor scales.

We do jam band and improv type music. Someone will start on a chord progression and if I don't pick it up by ear, I ask the guitarists what chords they are playing. I just play roots in different rhythms and experiment with what sounds good with the drummer and the rest of the band. With easy going guys, it is really fun!

If you know 12 bar blues/I-IV-V stuff you can jam for a long time with that and it is pretty easy, but sounds great!

Have fun!

[DudeistMonk]

Another good thing to know, that is easy to pick up quick, is the chord progression for blues: I-IV-V.

You can just play basic meat and potatoes figures from each of the three chords using the root, third, and fifth. With that you will keep an aspiring blues guitarist happy with your work for hours while he goes weedle-weedle-weedle ...

This is actually the basis for about a zillion different songs, so if you get comfortable playing over that progression you can do lots of jamming and sound fairly competent.

This site has info on blues progressions. There are many others:

http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdiction...ogression.html

+1 to blues, simple blues lines make the role of bass really apparent and easy to understand.

As for playing in a punk band I would say go find some people to jam with and see what you can make of it. You're going to be mostly rooting and you should catch on fairly quick...If nothing else do some covers.

I spent years in my basement learning tabs and sheet music and got nowhere because I didn't understand what the bassists on those records where doing, I was just a parrot saying hello when the telephone rings.

I signed up for lessons and learned a bit of music theory and the same day that I signed up for lessons I started going out and jamming, the two together are the biggest eye opener ever...I now know exactly what I need to do to get better and I listen to stuff that I recorded last year and stuff I'm doing now and there is no mistake I've improved 10 fold.

There are thousands of people out there to jam with, the only way to learn to swim is to jump in the pool.