advice on how to remember how many sharps/flats r in each major key?

[Vacume]

how did u learn?

[Bassist4Life]

The very first thing you need to do is memorize the Order of Sharps/Flats:

Sharps
F, C, G, D, A E, B

Flats (just the opposite)
B, E, A, D, G, C, F

Next, learn a couple of rules:
1. Sharps: The last sharp is "Ti" (or the 7th scale degree in the major key). For example, if you have 5 sharps, the last sharp is A#. Go up a half-step and you'll get your major key. 5 sharps = B Major.

2. Flats: The 2nd to last flat IS the key. For example, if you have 5 flats, the 2nd to last flat would be Db. That's your key. 5 flats = Db Major.

There are other ways to do this, but this is the way I do it.

Joe

[steveb98]

BEADGCF is the order of the flats.
FCGDAEB is the order of the sharps.

Note they are just the reverse of each other.

To check yourself the last flat added will be the fourth note of the key. So key of 2 flats (Bb and Eb) is Bb. Eb is the fourth note of the key of Bb.

For sharps the last sharp is the seventh of the scale. So key of 2 sharps (F# and C#) is D. C# is the seventh note of the key of D.

[Richard Lindsey]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I can't imagine any trick to learning this stuff that wouldn't be more complicated, convoluted, and time-consuming than simply memorizing them would be. It's kind of like asking for a trick to learning the multiplication tables.

My $0.02.

[MonetBass]

My H.S. orchestra teacher used this for the order of sharps:
(F)at (C)harlie (G)ets (D)runk (A)t (E)very (B)ar

Then reverse it for flats:
(B)ar (E)very (A)t (D)runk (G)ets (C)harlie (F)at

Hey, it worked for me.

[Kurtmon]

I am working on this myself my teacher uses( Fat Cows Go Down And Eat) for the Sharps, since C Maj has no sharps or flats the F# starts with G Maj, useing the Circle of fifths you can use this to help with remembering.it has worked for me

[MichaelScott]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

Don't take this the wrong way, but I can't imagine any trick to learning this stuff that wouldn't be more complicated, convoluted, and time-consuming than simply memorizing them would be. It's kind of like asking for a trick to learning the multiplication tables.

My $0.02.

+1 to this.

You'll spend maybe an hour memorizing them. But you'll probably waste more then that everytime you try to figure them out with some sort of formula.

[tjh]

actually, I do have a little trick I use, if I am understanding the question correctly to be: How do we tell what key the song is in, based upon the NUMBER (how many, not the names of each) of sharps and flats at the time signature?? ... it helps to have your bass in hand to do this, but for the number of sharps, simply step off in fifths, starting of course from C (I use 8th fret E string) ... so one sharp is key of G (5th of C), 2 sharps is key of D (5th of G), 3 sharps is A (5th of D), 4 sharps is E (5th of A), etc .... to find the key by the number of flats, again start at C, same position, and this time step off in fourths ... 1 flat is key of F (4th of C), 2 flats is key of Bb (4th of F), 3 flats is key of Eb (4th of Eb), etc .... I am not sure if this was the OP question or not, but this works for me ... and as far as remembering WHICH notes are b or # in each key, the above posts deal with that, and you can also reinforce your memory by recalling the notes that you just stepped off ... ... BTW, on a side note ... we gotta try and get Fat Charlie to an AA meeting ...

[Throckmorten]

Stare fixedly at the circle of 5ths chanting: beadgcf

in time all things will become clear

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

Don't take this the wrong way, but I can't imagine any trick to learning this stuff that wouldn't be more complicated, convoluted, and time-consuming than simply memorizing them would be. It's kind of like asking for a trick to learning the multiplication tables.

My $0.02.

I agree to a degree. I can name a key signature on sight, but it wasn't always this way.

Going up a 1/2 step from the sharp on the right is faster (IMO) than counting how many sharps you see.

I believe that it's easier to memorize a "rule" that can be applied to any key signature than it is to memorize the key signatures at sight. But that's just me.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind because I understand that people have different learning styles.

JOe

[tjh]

I should add to my already too lengthy post ... I am self taught ... so YMMV, IMHO, and all the other little symbols used here, and by all means consult your bass instructor (and probably a physician) before attempting this at home ...

[Dr_Funkdamental]

Originally Posted by Bassist4Life

1. Sharps: The last sharp is "Ti" (or the 7th scale degree in the major key). For example, if you have 5 sharps, the last sharp is A#. Go up a half-step and you'll get your major key. 5 sharps = B Major.

I have to admit, this is by far the best advice Ive seen on learning sharp keys. Im just mad Ive never seen it before. Preciate it Joe.

[GaryM]

Originally Posted by OKStateBass66

My H.S. orchestra teacher used this for the order of sharps:
(F)at (C)harlie (G)ets (D)runk (A)t (E)very (B)ar

Then reverse it for flats:
(B)ar (E)very (A)t (D)runk (G)ets (C)harlie (F)at

Hey, it worked for me.

I learned:

Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle
Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles' Father

[steveb98]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

Don't take this the wrong way, but I can't imagine any trick to learning this stuff that wouldn't be more complicated, convoluted, and time-consuming than simply memorizing them would be. It's kind of like asking for a trick to learning the multiplication tables.

My $0.02.

Different strokes for different folks. Everyone learns things in different ways and may look at things differently. What may be fast for one is slow for another. As long as they all end up with right answer that is all that matters. Plus if they use the info a lot they will memorize it.

Also what you are calling a trick is a way to check yourself that your are right. Same with multiplication tables. A good teacher besides trying to get a student to memorizes the table, will teach how to create the table also. So if they forget one of the bits of data on the table they can figure out the answer, or if unsure check themselves.

That's what makes forums like this work. Someone has a problem, people post the different ways they came about resolving it. The original poster can find one that works for them. Same with beginner books on any topic. There are lots of beginners books that teach the same thing, but in different ways. The student buys the book from the author who explanations make sense to them.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by steveb98

Same with multiplication tables. A good teacher besides trying to get a student to memorizes the table, will teach how to create the table also.

Not really. If you don't know that, for example, 7 times 9 is 63, there's really no way of teaching how to figure that out that's not more laborious and convoluted than just memorizing it would be.

But I agree 100% on the more general point that the important thing is to learn the info, regardless of how you do it.

Still, it does remind me a little of a very old joke, which you probably know. In the 1800s, two guys are crossing the prairie in a train. They look out the window and see an enormous herd of buffalo. One guy says to the other, "Betcha can't tell me how many buffalo are in that herd." The second guy looks out the window, squints his eyes, mutters to himself for a minute, and finally says, "7,387." The first guy, impressed, says, "Amazing! Your eyesight and powers of calculation are astonishing! How do you do that?" The second guy says, "I know it seems hard, but the way I do it, it's simple. I don't really count the individual buffaloes. I couldn't possibly count that many animals! What I do is, I use a trick, a kind of shortcut." "Oh yes? What's that?" "I just count all the legs and divide by 4." Ba-DUM-bum.

[JansenW]

Originally Posted by steveb98

BEADGCF is the order of the flats.
FCGDAEB is the order of the sharps.

It's easy...

I just visualize a 7 string bass and count the strings...

For flats: BEADG is a five string, CF would make it a 7 string.
For sharps: The reverse of flats.

[steveb98]

Originally Posted by JansenW

It's easy...

I just visualize a 7 string bass and count the strings...

For flats: BEADG is a five string, CF would make it a 7 string.
For sharps: The reverse of flats.

No for sharps your flip it over and play left handed.

[Jeff Moote]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

Don't take this the wrong way, but I can't imagine any trick to learning this stuff that wouldn't be more complicated, convoluted, and time-consuming than simply memorizing them would be. It's kind of like asking for a trick to learning the multiplication tables.

My $0.02.

Agreed! This really isn't that hard... compared to the amount of knowledge you accumulate in any type of education, this is nothing.

[Visirale]

Yeah, I just memorized the circle of fifths. Sure, I have some cutsie acronyms, but I know it without it now.

Go down and eat betty's fried chicken is my favorite acronym though .

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Just say repeat them outloud over and over. After a while you hear it in your head.

The 7-string bass thing is good too...