Aebersold play-alongs and minor chords

[Sean Baumann]

I picked up vol 1 and vol 2 of the Aebersold play-alongs. I was surprised to find no bass line transcriptions, bummer. I saw on their website that you can purchase those seperately, which I might do later.

So, I'm reading through vol 1, and it states that all the minor chords in the book are the dorian mode. I guess that implies that in all the tracks there are frequent key changes? I'm working through the first track now, using all 20 examples. Is this key change at every chord normal for jazz? How would I know by looking at a piece of music? I don't really have any other examples of written jazz music, but the examples in this book do not have key sigs. Is this dorian mode for any minor chord true for most jazz?

[WalterBush]

Bear in mind that the Aebersold transcriptions are usually vastly simplified, since they're meant primarily for beginners. Also, remember that modes are not keys--they are a set of notes within a key. Yes, playing the dorian mode over a m7 chord is normal, but minor, pentatonic, etc are appropriate, and frequently, a soloist will decide that they don't like that chord, and change it, spontaneously, and without telling anyone. Others just look at the overall, actual, key, and ignore changes altogether when playing. Learn what the book says, and keep your ears open when jamming or listening to recorded versions.

I'd write more, but honestly, that's a huge question, and I'm sure others will chime in, as well.

[Sean Baumann]

Originally Posted by WalterBush

Bear in mind that the Aebersold transcriptions are usually vastly simplified, since they're meant primarily for beginners. Also, remember that modes are not keys--they are a set of notes within a key. Yes, playing the dorian mode over a m7 chord is normal, but minor, pentatonic, etc are appropriate, and frequently, a soloist will decide that they don't like that chord, and change it, spontaneously, and without telling anyone. Others just look at the overall, actual, key, and ignore changes altogether when playing. Learn what the book says, and keep your ears open when jamming or listening to recorded versions.

I'd write more, but honestly, that's a huge question, and I'm sure others will chime in, as well.

Yeah, coming from pop/rock or whatever background, I'm not used to playing the dorian scale except over the II chord. If I was playing over the VI chord, but using a dorian scale....hrm.. a non-flat 6th.

[WalterBush]

Originally Posted by Sean Baumann

Yeah, coming from pop/rock or whatever background, I'm not used to playing the dorian scale except over the II chord. If I was playing over the VI chord, but using a dorian scale....hrm.. a non-flat 6th.

Flat the sixth if you want. Flatting the 5 or 9 on a V7 is popular, too. No rules in jazz. Just music. Learn the rules in the book, then practice until you've forgotten them.
For what it's worth, I went through the same thing when I went to college. I came from a rock background, and read written jazz lines in HS. Making the mental leap required for "real" jazz was difficult for a while. Keep your hands on your axe, and it'll work itself out.

[stuart clayton]

Sean,

I think I'm right in saying that Miles Davis recorded some great examples of modal jazz - tunes that are based on modes. I believe 'So What' is one of these, and moves between Dm7 (D Dorian) to Ebm7 (Eb Dorian) throughout. That might be a good place to start listening if you want to hear how the mode is used.

I'm sure others with a broader jazz knowledge will be able to chip in and mention a few more tunes like this.

Hope thats helps in some way...

Stu

[Sean Baumann]

Thanks for the suggestion, I have the album that is on (Kind of blue? or something like that), so I'll check it out.

[ryco]

On page 6 vol I Aebersold states "Every minor scale employed on the recording and in the musical examples is in the Dorian mode. I chose this scale because it is used extensively in jazz and popular music."

I believe he is using this particular chord/scale in preparation of the ii-V7-I progression. He really wants to emphasize that minor sound of the ii chord so you'll hear it, would be my guess. Also because Dorian is used in a lot of modal jazz songs as Stuart points out.

By all means explore all of the other minor chord/scales and play what you hear as appropriate. Sometimes a b6 sounds kind of wimpy, the M6 kind of beefs it up IMO.

[Sean Baumann]

Cool, thanks. Yeah, I'll experiment with the other scales over the progessions and make up my own mind. It is worries me that in the future, I may not know what scale/mode to use over a given chord if I don't know the key.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Sean Baumann

I picked up vol 1 and vol 2 of the Aebersold play-alongs. I was surprised to find no bass line transcriptions, bummer.

I think you're missing the point of them then!

So the idea is that you turn off the bass channel and play along with the piano/drums and improvise your own lines based on the chord changes - or if you are ambitious - just by listening and hearing what you should play!

As a Jazz bass player anyway - the idea is to make up your own improvised bass lines, not copy somebody else's and this is where the Aebersold CDs are especially useful !!

If you just want to hear some great basslines - then there are probably better CDs..... ?

[Sean Baumann]

I wanted to analyze how he made his note choices. My ear is not so good that I can pick out every note that he is playing.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Well there are a lot of books on note choice for Jazz walking basslines and there are many articles on the internet - even here by our own Chris F!

Also - if you are analysing bass lines, then my suggestion would be to look at the real classics - the greats!

The strength of the Aebersold series is that you can get into playing in a "real" situation in a safe environment.

So - chances are very good, that when you play with other people you will get a lead sheet like those in the Aebersold books and will be expected to improvise a bass line. These books/CDs allow you to practice for that situation !

[chardin]

Originally Posted by Sean Baumann

I wanted to analyze how he made his note choices. My ear is not so good that I can pick out every note that he is playing.

Check out Volume 54 -- Maiden Voyage and the transcribed bass lines as some great starting points.

[251]

+1.
Bear in mind those books are written to teach soloing. The scales & patterns are presented for use soloing.

Aebersold Vol 1 is the beginning & in Jazz that is ii/V/I/IV. ii-m7 is the chord associated with the Dorian (2nd) mode of the Major scale. Aebersold Vol 3 is, nearly, all ii/V/I patterns.

If you're interested in playing Jazz bass lines, consider starting with Todd Coolman's "The Bottom Line", also available from Jamie Aebersold.

[dlloyd]

Volume 1 isn't a great place to start as a bassist, I'd go for volume 54 first.

The reason (I'm guessing) that Jamey Aebersold concentrates on the dorian mode so much is that the ii V I progression is central to so many jazz tunes and, if you were using a simple scalar approach, you'd want to use the dorian scale over the ii.

[Sean Baumann]

I'll check out #54. I understand that volume 1 is for soloing, which is also something I want to work on, but since you can remove the bass, I felt that improvising a bassline would also be a good idea.

I'll take it for what it is, a beginning of jazz study which is very simplified.

[dlloyd]

Well, they're all for soloing, but you'll get more use out of the song-based volumes for standard jazz bass lines.

Volume 54 (Maiden Voyage) and volume 70 (IIRC, Killer Joe) have simpler tunes at more forgiving tempos.

I'd also get something that teaches how to do walking bass lines, Ed Friedland's book is great for this.

[Sean Baumann]

I'll have to dig it up, but I think I have Ed's book already. Great suggestions, thanks! Yes yes, I'm one of those guys that has too many books and never finishes any one of them heheh.