am I goign about it the wrong way?

[Holk]

Hello,

2 months ago I picked up my first bass (and instrument for that matter) and started learning through a DVD.

The DVD is structured in a way that theres 20 songs and you get the notes (with tabs underneath) on paper. Then the instructor on the DVD shows you what notes/chords you play and then you can play whatever speed(?) you like, aka 4/4 8/8 6/8 etc. Then he shows you how he plays it himself (he writes the stuff himself so he adds tricky bits that comes from being experienced I guess).

Now these instructions were pretty fun at first, but I got bored with the standard 4/4 and 8/8 pretty fast and started doing exactly what he did on the songs and learned through looking at the tabs.

Theres also been some scales (i think, I dont really know if scales is the word for it) which were pretty neat.

Now recently I got bored with playing these songs that meant nothing to me and I tried playing with the computer program called Guitar Pro (dont let the name fool you) where they basically have tabs/notes from songs and they play it etc for you so you can hear it and everything and then you can print the notes and play yourself.

Anyway I started playing Mastodon - I am Ahab, which I think is a pretty advanced piece but I absolutely love playing it because its my favourite band and the songs really means something to me and I get excited when I get it to sound like the original.

But I started wondering if this really was a good way to go about it all or if its, in the end, counterproductive and will end up working against me.

Give me your thoughts etc and I'm sorry about any blurry parts that I might not have explained properly. I'm from Sweden and therefor have been taught in swedish with swedish terms so please explain a bit what you mean if you give me any pointers on what to do.

Just any help at all or random thoughts will be appreciated as I feel kind of alone in my playing

Thanks in advance!

[Baryonyx]

Playing the music you love is the ultimate goal of the musician! If you can play Mastodon songs and get them sounding smooth and clean, then go for it and have fun! If you don't have fun when you are playing (say, forcing yourself to practice scale shapes and formulas and modes with no jamming or playing along to your favourite songs) you'll soon feel stifeled and could even lose interest in the bass!

[WillBuckingham]

Originally Posted by Holk

Hello,

2 months ago I picked up my first bass (and instrument for that matter) and started learning through a DVD.

The DVD is structured in a way that theres 20 songs and you get the notes (with tabs underneath) on paper. Then the instructor on the DVD shows you what notes/chords you play and then you can play whatever speed(?) you like, aka 4/4 8/8 6/8 etc. Then he shows you how he plays it himself (he writes the stuff himself so he adds tricky bits that comes from being experienced I guess).

Now these instructions were pretty fun at first, but I got bored with the standard 4/4 and 8/8 pretty fast and started doing exactly what he did on the songs and learned through looking at the tabs.

Theres also been some scales (i think, I dont really know if scales is the word for it) which were pretty neat.

Sounds like this DVD has gotten you pretty mixed up in terms of basic music theory and playing approaches. I'd dump the DVD and get a teacher if I were you.

For starters, 4/8 and 8/8 are essentially the same time signature (they are time signatures, not speeds), while 6/8 is very different (though it's true that they can all be interchangeble).

Ideally, you should be learning basic music theory and scales and chords on your instrument and applying them to real music. You seem to be getting going on the latter, but the foundation is also important, and will help you get started playing well.

-Will

[drumsnbass]

Originally Posted by Holk

Hello,

2 months ago ...

Thanks in advance!

You are basicall ylearning to "parrot" the DVD. If you are learning beyond that is a good question.

everything starts with chords. have you learned how to play
chords? major, minor to start? can you move around the neck and play the same chords in different places? cna you play them in vaious patterns like 1,3,5,3 or 8,6,7,8 etc etc?

if you are getting that from the DVD, you are headed in the right direction. if not, you need a teacher and a new direction.

[MistaMarko]

I'm a tad confused on what you mean by you played the same song in 4/4, then in 8/8, and then in 6/8...I dunno maybe I'm lost O_O

[duo8675309]

Seriously, get a teacher. It might cost a little money but it is extremely beneficial. Even if he is like my teacher and is touch and go on all of the music theory, it is still very beneficial. You'll realize that each time you go to a lesson you'll come out feeling like you know just a little bit more about bass.

[bubinga5]

Holk.

No doubt learning your favorite songs is really good fun, and great for different fingering combinations, but eventually you may want to understand how these basslines are created, ie what scales they are based on. I agree with DUO, get a teacher. I didnt get a teacher and i really battled through theory(and still am). If you cant get a teacher for what ever reason, get a good book or DVD on bass technique and theory. That DVD sounds a bit naff. What is it?

Dont get me wrong playing songs is great and i still do it for picking up licks and cool stuff from other(far superior) bassists, but ultimately you may want to make up your own runs licks,lines,its cool when your playing a bass line from a song you know and then throw a some different licks in there, so i would get theory down when your starting.

Check out Norm Stockton's series of DVD's, he explains stuff really well.If you dont have religious tendencies dont let this put you off, that is a small part of the DVD. If not Bass Guitar for Dummies(excuse the name)

Hope that helps.

Good luck bro.
Andy.

[Holk]

Originally Posted by MistaMarko

I'm a tad confused on what you mean by you played the same song in 4/4, then in 8/8, and then in 6/8...I dunno maybe I'm lost O_O

As I said I'm swedish so I'm struggling with explaining things in english but it means that lets say you have a song that goes like E - D - F# (just made that up.) Then when you play in 4/4 you play each note four times so its E x4 D x4 F# x4, and when you play 8/8 you gotto play each note 8 times instead of 4 during the same period of time so you gotto play twice as fast. 6/8 means you play as fast as 8/8 but you only play it 6 times.

If I'm wrong someone tell me.

Thanks for all the help and advice guys and to give you some more info on my situation: I'm pretty familiar with the notes on the neck and where they are, albeit it does takes a second or two but I can find any note on any string. That is if I take the time to go through it in my head and calculate where it is, I don't know by heart just yet (apart from a couple on E and A strings.)

Also like I said I've played some scales like the DVD told me to, but they didn't really explain what they were so I sat there playing them thinking hmm this sounds pretty neat, and I started laborating with it and making pretty cool stuff from it. But to be honest I don't know why I played the scales or how they are built, but I did understand from the dvd that the pattern you play the scales can be moved to anywhere on the neck creating different kinds of scales.

Yesterday I also realized my right hand technique prolly sucks, think I use too much force or something when striking the strings, gotto work on that too.

Regarding the teacher bit, thats not really an option in my area I think. I'll look into it but I'm not gonna get my hopes up.

Thanks again, any further input would be vastly appreciated.

[drumsnbass]

okay dude, you are off, but trying is a good thing!

4/4 refers to "time" in music. As in 4 quarter notes in
a measure (the place between two vertical lines in the
music). 3/4 refers to 3 quarter notes in a measure.
most rock is in 4/4, so that is easy to get. Polkas are
in 3/4 to give you an idea of the difference. Dave Brubeck's
Time Out album has every song in a different time signature.
If you have it, try count 1 -2 -3 -4 etc. in each song till you
get a hang of how many notes happen before it seems to repeat
itself. THAT is all the 4/4 etc. 8/8 would mean 8 eigth notes
in a measure. 6/8 is six eigths notes in a measure. What you
are doing is simple repetitions of the same measure I imagine.

Follow so far? If so, respond & I will keep going with "chords".

[Holk]

Originally Posted by drumsnbass

okay dude, you are off, but trying is a good thing!

4/4 refers to "time" in music. As in 4 quarter notes in
a measure (the place between two vertical lines in the
music). 3/4 refers to 3 quarter notes in a measure.
most rock is in 4/4, so that is easy to get. Polkas are
in 3/4 to give you an idea of the difference. Dave Brubeck's
Time Out album has every song in a different time signature.
If you have it, try count 1 -2 -3 -4 etc. in each song till you
get a hang of how many notes happen before it seems to repeat
itself. THAT is all the 4/4 etc. 8/8 would mean 8 eigth notes
in a measure. 6/8 is six eigths notes in a measure. What you
are doing is simple repetitions of the same measure I imagine.

Follow so far? If so, respond & I will keep going with "chords".

Yeah I understand, I tried to say what you said but I'm having a difficult time expressing myself

Please go on to chords

[morf]

One word: bass teacher


....

wait thats two words

[Skel]

I personally have nothing against getting a teacher but I believe you can be your own teacher if you know how to learn, and it sounds like you do. You can pick stuff up from every possible place you can get it...your friends, bands you go see, DVD's, CD's, TV, the piano teacher lady, The rhythm of a jack hammer...just anything and everything. If you feel like you are getting towards what you are aiming at, then that's the ticket. If you can't put the bass down, you love it, and you will get there. Chords? You want to play chords or just understand their construction to play more interesting bass lines?

[Holk]

Originally Posted by Skel

I personally have nothing against getting a teacher but I believe you can be your own teacher if you know how to learn, and it sounds like you do. You can pick stuff up from every possible place you can get it...your friends, bands you go see, DVD's, CD's, TV, the piano teacher lady, The rhythm of a jack hammer...just anything and everything. If you feel like you are getting towards what you are aiming at, then that's the ticket. If you can't put the bass down, you love it, and you will get there. Chords? You want to play chords or just understand their construction to play more interesting bass lines?

I can actually put the bass down, I feel I don't practice nearly enough actually

[K2000]

You sound like you're doing fine so far. Learn the major and minor scale, and be able to play them in any key and in any position on the neck. You already know how to find any note all over the neck on any string, that is awesome. If you can find a teacher that would be helpful, but you can progress a lot on your own, if a teacher can't be found anywhere. There are lots of good resources on the internet, and instructional DVDs too.

The most important thing is to play a lot... all the time. The more you play, the faster you will progress. Besides knowing theory, playing bass is a physical skill that requires lots of repetition and practice. Keep at it.

To answer your original question, it doesn't sound like you are going about it in a bad way.

With your right hand technique, you don't have to pull (pluck the strings). Work on developing a quick and light touch. Do you ever sit a your desk and drum your fingers? If so, think about that technique, except your fingers will glance against the strings. (Hope that makes sense). You do not need to grab at the strings with your right hand. Think of your fingers as tiny mallets or hammers, and not hooks.

[drumsnbass]

Originally Posted by Holk

Yeah I understand, I tried to say what you said but I'm having a difficult time expressing myself

Please go on to chords

(from an email exchange i had with another member...)

a scale is just a bunch of notes. a chord is a specific subset of those notes that sets the tone to match with the rest of the band. lets take a real specific example of two chords in a major scale.

Go to the 8th position on the E string (low sounding one). Play that note with "the bird finger". You just played a C note.

Now play the 7th position on the A string, then the 10th on the A string, then the 7th on the A string again. You just played C,E,G,E. That, my friend, is a chord. You just played the 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 3rd again notes of a C major scale.

If you wanted to play a chord progression, you would next move "the bird finger" up a string (or physically down) the fretboard to the next string. That is an F you are playing on the A string.

Using the exact same finger pattern as on the C chord you played, you would play the 7th, then 10th, then 7th again on the D string.

if you linked it all together, you would have now played two chords, a C chord and an F chord.

so what, right? well, that's the most basic building block of a chord, and the easiest one to play. The really neat thing about it is you can move that finger pattern almost anywhere on the fretboard where you have 2 strings together. Thus, you could play the same chords again on the C & F by playing the 3rd fret on the A string and the 3rd fret on the D string. Just play the same pattern again. You can also play that pattern with a starting G, or Eb, or whatever you want. Now you are walking!

Yeah, but riffs, give me the riffs you say!

okay. Let's look at the C scale only now (easiest and this message could go on forever). Your C scale is all the whole notes -- C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C. No sharps, no flats. ALL those notes are available for you to play while playing with a band, provided the root chord of that bar/measure of the music is also a C chord.

Thus, you could "riff" as (and I will stick to all quarter notes here for simplicity):

CCEF CDEE CGEE etc etc.

It's all available to you. In fact, even the flats and sharps can be used which are NOT a part of the scale, BUT (these are not firm rules but you better stick with them to begin with):

1) start with the root chord note (C in this case)
2) keep most of your notes in the chord notes (CEG etc)
3) use the non-scale/non-chord notes as passing notes only. CC#GA
4) don't end your riff on a non chord note (start flying all over and you'll defintely get lost)

my teaches suggests improv, but usually stresses staying as close to the chord notes as possible. Usually sounds best, and harder to get lost. It keeps your fingers in the pattern we discussed above. As you get that pattern down (as well as
say 1,3,5,8 or 8,3,5,3 etc etc) you can move off the chord
notes with no problem.

Now a simple exercise. go to playthebass.com and print out some paper showing the neck and the music staff. get out a pencil, a red highlighter, and a black marker. write out a scale on the staff part of the paper, then, using a sample of where the notes are on the neck, use the red marker to note the fingerings on the neck for all the chord notes, and fill in the rest of the scale (non-chord notes) with black marker. you now have a representation of how the chord fingering works for a C major scale. BTW, a major scale follows the pattern of:

[drumsnbass]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

cont'd...

W W H W W W H (W=whole, H= Half)

C to D is a Whole jump (C, C#,D)
D to E is a Whole jump (D, D#, E)
F to F is a Half jump (E,F -- there are no sharps/flats in between)
F to G is a Whole jump (F, F#,G)
G to A is a Whole jump (G,G#,A)
A to B is a Whole Jump (A, A#,B)
B to C is a Half jump (B,C)

Remember your full complimet of notes is:
C,C#,D,D#,E,F,F#,G,G#,A,A#,B,C (12 notes before C repeats)

Now your chord notes are C,E,G,B,(and C again)
Your remaining scale notes are D,F,A
Seven total scale notes in C major

Your passing notes are C#,D#,F#,G#,A#
The 5 notes you want to rarely use in a riff, but still useable in a pinch.

Your starting notes for the chord are C, or high C.
You can play the notes going up, you can play them
from high C going down. But till you have a clue, you should always play them from C in the C chord, F in the F chord, etc.

Okay, so this is a lot so far. Am I making any sense?

I should add, you have to practice the first two chords I gave you (C,F) before it begins to sink in.

And finally, for all thouse out there who want to add how much more can be done, PLEASE keep in mind we are keeping it REAL simple here!

[duo8675309]

Hey, if you want to teach yourself, get bass guitar for dummies. I have that book and its really good!

[morf]

Teaching yourself is good, yes. But a teacher will undoubtedly open your mind and make you understand alot more things, alot quicker. I played around 6-8 months on my own before getting a teacher, and I wish I had sooner. The 4 months in which I've been taught by someone had me make more progress than the 6-8 months of playing on my own.

[Holk]

That was one informative post(s), but it gave me a headache trying to understand it without the bass in my hands, will try and break it down later with the bass handy.

Thanks alot.

[Holk]

Originally Posted by K2000

With your right hand technique, you don't have to pull (pluck the strings). Work on developing a quick and light touch. Do you ever sit a your desk and drum your fingers? If so, think about that technique, except your fingers will glance against the strings. (Hope that makes sense). You do not need to grab at the strings with your right hand. Think of your fingers as tiny mallets or hammers, and not hooks.

and thanks alot for this piece of info, going to try it out later and check the difference, thanks!