Application of Scales?

[John D@508]

Go easy on me I am in my 1st month of learning music, let alone the bass.

My teacher, who is away on vacation so I cannot ask her this, showed me a few scales. I believe to build up strength and dexterity in my hand and to learn notes. I had an epiphony last night and now I am starting to understand them. I was pretty excited.

Well my question is this...Aside from what I already mentioned what purpose do scales provide in music? Why do people study them so intensely as far as theory?

Sorry if this is a dumb question...

[Beginner Bass]

Scales are the building blocks of music. All keys are based off of scales. (Almost) All songs are based off of keys. They are also a good thing to have in your music toolbox, especially as you learn what scales go well with certain chords. Over time, drilling scales at an appropriate tempo will help you recognize them, which will help you when you get into transcribing. Also, once you cover all 7 modal scales, you'll have areference to all 12 intervals.

[MalcolmAmos]

Not a dumb question. I too have asked this same question. Here is a scale generator. http://www.looknohands.com/chordhous.../index_rb.html

Notice there are a kizillion different scales listed. I really do not see the need for so many. The sound they produce is the reason we have that number.

I get along fine with the major and natural minor scale. I never went with melodic minor or harmonic minor, but, you should give them a look. That generator will show the following - you have to scroll the screen down to see this.
C Harmonic Minor
intervals: 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,7
half-steps: 2-1-2-2-1-3-1
notes: C,D,Eb,F,G,Ab,B
What I'm interested in seeing are the intervals. 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, 7 OK I look at that and know it is the same as the natural minor scale with a raised 7th. So if I want that sound I just use the natural minor scale and sharp the b7 back to a natural 7th. My point - the major and natural minor scale intervals are my home base and then I have a few scale I like and know that if I sharp or flat certain intervals I get their sound. Hungarian Gypsy is: 1, 2, b3, #4, 5, b6, 7 look familiar? Yep it's Harmonic Minor with a sharped 4th.


Then there are modes - which I am not going to get into. Just understand there are two different ways to play modes. Relative and Parallel. You will probably be taught the relative method first. I drifted to parallel and never went back to relative.

The sound you get from the scales is affected by the chords you play those scales over. It's a journey that can keep you busy for years. If you are playing over a major chord progression makes since to use major scales. If you are playing over a minor chord progression makes since to play the minor scales. I love pentatonic scales 3 chord tones and two safe passing notes. Gather your melody from the pentatonic chord tones. One last thing. The melody notes (scale notes) and the chords should share like notes. When this happens you harmonize - sound good. It's a chicken or egg thing, but, to harmonize each should share some of it's notes with the other.

Take it one step at a time and have fun.

[Mark Perry]

The chromatic scale is a good one to learn. All 12 notes played one after the other. If you start on any open string and play every fret up to the 12th you've played a chromatic scale.

Playing the scale slowly while droning the open string could be a good way to train your ear. 0, 1, 0, 2, 3, 0, 4, 5, 0.... etc.

Imo, the trick with scales is to practice them a lot. Then almost forget about them when you're out of your bedroom. You get the sounds in your head and the notes under your fingers. It eventually all becomes intuitive.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by John D@508

Well my question is this...Aside from what I already mentioned what purpose do scales provide in music? Why do people study them so intensely as far as theory?

No, it's not a dumb qiestion. This site answers it better than I ever could. It's a great all round site for beginners. I'd advice you to save it for future reference.



http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-scales/

[ericw]

You can use scales to understand chords.

[John D@508]

This place, Talk Bass, is going to be a great resource..I can tell already.

Awesome stuff guys thanks. Im going to spend the day reading those link you guys provided.

One thing that confuses me is this...

Originally Posted by Mark Perry

Playing the scale slowly while droning the open string could be a good way to train your ear. 0, 1, 0, 2, 3, 0, 4, 5, 0.... etc.

...Droning the open string, is that the same as muting? and what are the numbers?Is my interpretation below correct?

Example...

Open E, half step to F,Open E,Whole to G,Open E,Whole to A,Open E,Half to B.....etc. Or am I way off?

[tony_clifton]

I think you are right, I think he meant to play the root note before every other note in the scale.

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes Droning is sounding a note and then playing over it's sound. Or playing over a modal vamp - that is droning in the background - more on that later.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SckVz3XpLs.

Gets back to the chord you play over dictates the overall sound that is produced. In the above case there is no chord - the droning E note does the same as what a chord would do if you played over it.

Do not confuse this with chord progression what we are talking about here is a modal vamp. Two chords one being the tonic chord and the other being the chord that has the unique sound you are trying to obtain played over and over in a droning fashion. http://www.riddleworks.com/modalharm3.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTQol...eature=related

Now how much of that can you use in your bass line? Not a lot unless you are playing over a modal vamp or a chord progression that is static for at least two measures, three preferred. Chord changes quicker than that lend themselves to tonal centers, thus chord tones, not modal moods.

Have fun.

[Mark Perry]

Originally Posted by John D@508

This place, Talk Bass, is going to be a great resource..I can tell already.

Awesome stuff guys thanks. Im going to spend the day reading those link you guys provided.

One thing that confuses me is this......Droning the open string, is that the same as muting? and what are the numbers?Is my interpretation below correct?

Example...

Open E, half step to F,Open E,Whole to G,Open E,Whole to A,Open E,Half to B.....etc. Or am I way off?

The numbers are the frets. So you'll play: open E, F (on fret 1), open E, F sharp (on fret 2) open E, G (fret 3) open E...

So a half step each time, up to the octave.

By droning I mean continuously going between the root and each note in the scale.

The aim is to be able to hear the difference between each interval and the root. So you're better able to play anything you hear or imagine.

There are other ways to play the chromatic scale (and any other). I'd look it up and learn as many as possible

Edit: droning wasn't what I meant at all. You'd have to drone on a different string and I was thinking about the same string. Sorry for the confusion.

[PlanetEarth]

Originally Posted by ericw

You can use scales to understand chords.

Or vice-versa: Just to offer an alternative; the chord really dictates the scale, the tertiary structure of the chord all the way up through it's extensions gives the complete scale.

E.g., in C - iii VI7 ii V7... etc. One of many possibilities is the VI7 chord is VI7b9b13 (without a melody to analyze). Why? if you want a safe bet to build an E7 in the key of C we know we need at a minimum E G# D, now fill in the holes with notes from the Cmaj. key - E F G# A B C D E, so we have b9 (F), b13 (C), and a perfect 5th if you wanna add it back in. Incidentally this yields an A harmonic minor from the 5th degree (or you might call it mixolydian b9 b13, but the name is a mute point IMHO). This is grossly oversimplified just to make a point as there are a plethora of things it *could* be but since we're not implying a melody or even a style......

The moral of the story is simply that without ever knowing the *mode* or even thinking about a scale, and rather, considering the chord, you have everything you need to work with that chord and never need to know the name of the scale that was derived by filling in the blanks based on the building blocks of the chord. In this instance the scale came to be by means of the chord and the key center; for me personally I find this easier to relate to as I tend to believe the composers intension in doing such a thing was simply to enhance the perception of resolution by using the dominant chord, I doubt it started as a desire to use harmonic minor then subsequently look for chords that could be derived from that scale. Again to grossly over simplify you might ponder that much music is tension and release, statement and response - You start at home, take your journey (perhaps stop home a few times during your journey) and eventually return home.

That stuff is all great for analysis and a must-learn IMHO - but in the end has very little to do with practical application on a gig.

Def. not trying to start a war here, just offering an alternative viewpoint. In short and again IMHO, if you're just starting out and are looking at scales/modes and have not learned about chords and chord scales yet I'd argue that might be a bit backward but... to each his own.

-PE