Applying Horn Theory to bass?

[BellBottomBlues]

Howdy!

I was wondering if anyone else here plays their bass like a horn? Lately I've been taking horn solos and transcribing them for bass (usually I have one drone string in the key of the song/passage and I play out the solo on the other string(s) usually the D string.

If anyone else hasn't done this I suggest you should, its a lot of fun and its works well in songs where its just rhythm section and vocals. My band should be recording a song where I do this sometime this weekend hopefully.

It sounds pretty good so far (at least I hope so) we're just trying to figure out the vocal melody for it. The part of the song where I'm playing a "horn solo" its just me, drums, and vocals.

For the track I'll be playing a 58 P-bass strung with flats most likely plugged into my Ampeg V4B and 8x10 SVTE or Trace Elliot V8 on top of the same cab. The music is all figured out, right now we're working on vocals and figuring out the recording process on what sounds best. (DI or mic'ing or a combo of both)

[Cail]

I kind of used to do this back in high school. I was just learning bass and already was relatively good at tuba. So since I had all these songs memorized for tuba I would make slight modifications to those parts and play them on bass for practice. Of course tuba parts were really well suited in a lot of cases to the bass.

[Chad.mundt]

every jazzer does this.

[tkozal]

all the time..plus think on this. When I was taking jazz lessons from Eric Kloss, a sax player, he told me started his sax students out, before they could play a solo through a tune, in order to show they knew the tune, they would have to...


..play a walking bass line through it!

[Febs]

Check out Jaco's recording of Donna Lee.

[needmoney]

Originally Posted by tkozal

all the time..plus think on this. When I was taking jazz lessons from Eric Kloss, a sax player, he told me started his sax students out, before they could play a solo through a tune, in order to show they knew the tune, they would have to...


..play a walking bass line through it!

That's such a great idea, I wish more teachers applied it. I see a tonne of horn players that have no idea of the concept of walking bass or outlining chords in general. Half of them just shred a bunch of scales over chords and think they know the changes, crazy! It's a huge advantage being a bass player cause the walking bass side of things can really help when it comes to knowing your changes.

[BassChuck]

This is very good idea. I like trumpet solos. Perhaps because I once played trumpet, also because the range is somewhat limited in comparision to other horns.

Play anything that catches your ear.

[hunta]

My old bass teacher used to give me exercises from a trombone book. Good for melody.

[BellBottomBlues]

I'll post a link to the recording in this thread and in the recordings section when we do it.

Its difficult sometimes to get it to sound right, because you can't just play any note, but its a lot of fun.

I've heard Donna Lee, it doesn't remind me of horns at all. I don't care much for the song either, so maybe thats why and I never bothered to fully listen.

[hunta]

Originally Posted by BellBottomBlues

I've heard Donna Lee, it doesn't remind me of horns at all. I don't care much for the song either, so maybe thats why and I never bothered to fully listen.

The original is Charlie Parker on sax. If you aren't a jazzhead or used to being around classical/jazz horn players a lot it may not jump out at you. The way the notes are played and the voicings used are typical of jazz horn writing. It's melodious!

[BellBottomBlues]

Originally Posted by hunta

The original is Charlie Parker on sax. If you aren't a jazzhead or used to being around classical/jazz horn players a lot it may not jump out at you. The way the notes are played and the voicings used are typical of jazz horn writing. It's melodious!

I'm a very big Charlie Parker fan, and I heard Jaco's cover (and didn't like it) I just didn't put two and two together. Shame on me... But Jaco covers a few Charlie Parker tunes as well, I'll have to give those a listen to now. Damnit.

[DistantTremor]

My bass teacher tells me over and over again to play like a bassist when I'm not soloing, and play like a horn player when I am.

[Peck_Time]

Things about playing a horn:

1)- You have to breathe. You can't play all the time (unless you're Rahsaan Roland Kirk), which makes your lines more like singing.

2)- It's physically demanding (especially brass). When you play a high note it takes effort, which means you tend to save those notes for climaxes.

[Peck_Time]

3)- The timbre of the instrument changes throughout the range. Paul Desmond's high F is very different sounding to his middle F. Clarinets have a piercing high range, a breathy middle range, and a honky low range etc.

4)- Intonation is individual. Many horn players play slightly sharp (Eric Dolphy, Jackie Maclean) because it adds edge to their sound and helps to cut through.

[BellBottomBlues]

Originally Posted by Peck_Time

Things about playing a horn:

1)- You have to breathe. You can't play all the time (unless you're Rahsaan Roland Kirk), which makes your lines more like singing.

2)- It's physically demanding (especially brass). When you play a high note it takes effort, which means you tend to save those notes for climaxes.

This sounds pretty close to what I'm doing most of the time, guess I'm doing something right

[Aaron]

Folks recommend transcribing horn solos because horn players generally have spent a lot more time learning how to solo, comparatively to bass players, who have to spend a lot of time studying basslines. An alto saxophonist also plays with a lot more facility than a double bassist, so technical restrictions of an instrument factor less into a solo (unless you're dealing with double-stops and chords).

It is good to transcribe whatever strikes your ear. I'm finishing up my transcription of Django's solo on "I'll See You In My Dreams". He wasn't a horn player, but that doesn't make his solo any less valuable or amazing.

[Vengoropatubus]

+1 to Django. I've been listening to him and Stephane Grapelli, and the work those two did on Shades of Django is just incredible.

[DocBop]

I remember back in my guitar days and Larry Carlton talking about listening to John Coltrane's CD Ballads as the best lesson in phrasing you could ever want.

The main thing to get from horn players besides their phrasing it that they think in notes and note fingering patterns. Thinking of chord tones, target tones, intervals, to become totally in control of what you play and not just muscle memory from finger patterns.

[sir juice]

try and take inspiration from anyone who you like listening to.

I've transcribed and am soon to record (once i can play it right) Vermont Counterpoint by Steve Reich. It's a minimilast composition for 12 flutes (I'll multitrack it obviously)

I've learnt Joe Zawinul solos, Miles Davis solos, all the parts to various Thelonius Monk tunes, not a huge fan of Bird because I like a little more space, but seriously, just learn anything that takes your fancy. Any music you like should be a direct influence on your bass playing. I find just learning the works of other bass players can be less of a discovery, as I find I just try to mimic the way they did it, that's impossible with other instruments.

That's just my 2p (I'm English )

[stealyourface]

Sir Duke