Attention Dillinger Escape Plans and Techcore geeks

Osama_Spears · #1 05-14-2005, 12:05 AM

Hey guys...

Im just trying to find some insight on Dillinger's use of theory to create the music they do. I mean,I know there is alot of tritones and dissonance used, alot of chromatic scaling as well - but Im just looking for some more specific knowledge on what they play,etc.

SOunds confusing,sorry...thanks in advance.

ImNotGeddyLee · #2 05-14-2005, 12:28 AM

it's not really that complex... just fast.

Tash · #3 05-14-2005, 02:11 AM

Its all based on post-tonal 20th century compositional technique. Read up on set theory and 12 tone composition and practice your polyrythm and syncopation skills. Those are the building blocks.

Osama_Spears · #4 05-14-2005, 12:05 PM

12 tone composition? care to elaborate?

Nickthebassist · #5 05-14-2005, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osama_Spears

Hey guys...

Im just trying to find some insight on Dillinger's use of theory to create the music they do. I mean,I know there is alot of tritones and dissonance used, alot of chromatic scaling as well - but Im just looking for some more specific knowledge on what they play,etc.

SOunds confusing,sorry...thanks in advance.

That'd be crap then.

**Adam Barkley** · #6 05-14-2005, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickthebassist

That'd be crap then.

Tangent.

Tash · #7 05-14-2005, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osama_Spears

12 tone composition? care to elaborate?

A composition technique formalized by Arnold Schoenberg in the early 20s that uses all 12 pitches without emphasis or preference toward any particular pitch or collection of pitches. No note can be repeated until all 12 notes have been used. 12 tone compositions are built on the idea of a particular "row", or string of all 12 possible notes, instead of a "key".

More info here:
http://www.cwu.edu/~compose/PostTonal_5.html

I am pretty new to this myself, so far I've done only a single short composition using 12 tone technique. It is very intriguing though and intend to pursue it further with my private comp teacher before I go on to finish my degree.

Osama_Spears · #8 05-15-2005, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickthebassist

That'd be crap then.

leave my thread.

kingbrutis · #9 05-15-2005, 11:57 PM

I have seen DEP 6 times and have never been all that impressed with thier bassist. Dont get me wrong, he is better than I'll ever be, but thier guitars are the driving force. I cant help you with thier theory, but as a band, they are the best at what they do. Later Joe

Nick man · #10 05-16-2005, 09:21 PM

Thats really interesting. Though I dont plan on writing music in DEP's style, I think I might try that for a few songs.

xshawnxearthx · #11 05-17-2005, 06:58 AM

their first bassist(the one who was paralized ina car wreck) was so much better then the one they have now.

Nickthebassist · #12 05-17-2005, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abark000

Tangent.

Excuseeeeeeeeeee me?

**Adam Barkley** · #13 05-17-2005, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickthebassist

Excuseeeeeeeeeee me?

You replyed to a General Instruction thread just to troll and neatly dodged the original question with a inane quip that was clearly not asked. Therefore you went out on a tangent.

Do I need to explain further or do you have a grasp on it?

43% burnt · #14 05-17-2005, 09:20 AM

^he he...thats funny^

Very interesting...I never really understood the theory behind some of their writing.

The older bass player was very good. Live, I'm always amazed by their guitarist...how does he play that stuff while going completely ape-s**t on stage??

Osama_Spears · #15 05-17-2005, 09:44 PM

Question:

When they play these 12 tone compositions,do they play them in a line(ex: G,G#,A,A#,B,C,etc) or "all over the place"(ex: G,B,C,A#,D#,etc)?

Im gonna say all over the place,because I cant see how they can just go up and down the same scale over and over again :P

Tash · #16 05-17-2005, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abark000

IAnyone have an example of complete Atonal scale usage in a DEP song? Or do they simply modify that scale concept to create atonal riffs, that I could understand as most of their riffs repeat notes often.

I think they have very selective use of atonality. There certainly isnt' anything in true 12 tone (which can be very beautiful and cool, or sound like monkeys hitting pianos). I have figured out a couple DEP songs for a friend and they did uses short atonal passages that were kind of like hexachordal rows repeated and rearranged.

That and they syncopate, a lot, to the point that I wonder if they don't choose their rythyms by throwing darts at a sheet of paper or something.

Nickthebassist · #17 05-18-2005, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abark000

You replyed to a General Instruction thread just to troll and neatly dodged the original question with a inane quip that was clearly not asked. Therefore you went out on a tangent.

Do I need to explain further or do you have a grasp on it?

O ok. I knew that.

Deadworks · #18 05-19-2005, 11:07 PM

Abark, There's a couple spots in the song 4th grade drop out that might be atonal scale based, It could just be atonal, it's pushing midnight and I have no ambition at this point to grab the gee-tar and test it. Well, I shouldn't say based it's two guitar runs that might be an atonal scale. The song isn't based off an atonal pattern.

The guitars may take advantage of them to shred now and then but there's no songs of theirs that I know are constructed from atonal scale pattern. I think that'd be too weird, even for them.

Somtimes I wonder how much of their writing boils down to *random finger placement shredding* "Hey this sound's F'd up...lets use it!" ?

mishi_ono · #19 05-20-2005, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abark000

Listen to Schoenberg if you get the chance. He invented the Atonal scale concept.

Basically the idea is that any of the twelve notes can be played and any octave and order, but a note can't be repeated until all twelve have been used. Reflections (imagine a mirror image of piano keys) and inversions are the main thing that keep this concept from always sounding the same.

I honestly don't hear as much atonal scales in DEP's music as I just hear atonality; stop/start tempo and key changes and a general disregard for key. Anyone have an example of complete Atonal scale usage in a DEP song? Or do they simply modify that scale concept to create atonal riffs, that I could understand as most of their riffs repeat notes often.

If you listen to Schoenberg you really grasp what this concept sounds like. I think it sounds awful.

no this concept is simply known as serialism.
placing equal value on all 12 notes creates a certain lack of
key center and tonic.
lack of repitition in rhythm as well as melodic choice is also common practice.
scoenberg hated the term atonalism and insisted his music be
classified as pantonic

i doubt dillinger escape plan composes serial passages as they not only use high amounts of repitition within their music
but they also have very evident key centers.
they only sound 'atonal' to untrained ears due to high tempos and plenty of filler notes that move by dissonance rather
than consonance.

skunkrawk · #20 05-26-2005, 07:27 PM

i just learned about serialism in music theory at school, its reallly interesting (i love dissonance), but i dont think dillinger uses it that much. in an interview with them i read that one of the guitar players (maybe both) only knows very simple and basic theory and that when writing a part they start out with a concept based loosely on basic music theory and then kind of forget the rules and just tweak it until it sounds how they want (without paying much attention to theory.) i also read that the drummer spent a few semesters at berkeley and instead of majoring in performance for drums he majored in synthesized sound. am i the only dillinger fan who was disappointed by miss machine?