Bach Prelude from Suite no 1 for cello, playing it WELL

KingCrimson · #1 03-06-2010, 03:53 PM

Hello i am learning the Bach Prelude no1. for college, and i want to play it well, like music, not straight and perfect. How about should i go accenting this piece into my own interpretation?

**Pacman** · #2 03-06-2010, 04:50 PM

Listen to great cellists play it.

Joebone · #3 03-06-2010, 05:06 PM

You can find a bunch of bass guitar interpretations on YouTube. Some of them are good, some of them suck. One, by a brand-name player, is not what I expected. There's a vibrant version by a European bassist named Jacques Bono, that's played on 4-string and transposed to E. Some of the youtube versions are on 6 string and up an octave.

I think you'll find bass versions generally lack the singing sustain of the good cello versions...which makes sense, since we don't bow. That Bono version is fun because he just lays in for a percussive approach at a fast tempo, and it's fun...it has a sense of dance to it, which resonates with my understanding that pieces in each suite are labeled by various Baroque dance forms.

I've been working this sucker up on 5-string, in the original register, and it's been fascinating as I try to determine the best fingering strategies given how different each passage can sound if played on lower or higher strings.

I should add that my cello edition (Hugo Becker) is marked for slow dynamic development over long passages, but I've been experimenting with 4-bar dynamic cycles, sort of like horn players often do (whaddaya want - I used to play trombone). Not sure I'd want to do that in a "definitive" approach, but kind of fun for now.

Jazzerbone · #4 03-06-2010, 08:07 PM

Interesting thread.

I studied this piece in college on trombone and as well as I could play it, it never sounded right. I've worked it on bass (6 string 8va) some and I find the same problem. It's hard to sing like a cello. I like to think that the cello is just the best stand alone solo instrument there is.

What recordings have you guys heard on bass that you've particularly liked?

ugly_bassplayer · #5 03-06-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

Listen to great cellists play it.

I could not have said it better.

kumde · #6 03-06-2010, 10:12 PM

The starting point would be to listen to Casalis, Rostropovich and other good cellists. Also, as the bass is not a sustaining instrument like the cello, why not look briefly how Bach is phrased on the piano.

FWIW, I feel that the piece should be played in the cello register, i.e. what bassists could call "octave up". The harmony justs gets too muddy to me when played an octave down. I play it on a fretless 4 and as a compromise have to jump an octave down in the end beginning from the chromatic run against the open d-string.

Schlyder · #7 03-06-2010, 10:29 PM

Learn it, of course, then play with the phrasing, tempo, dynamics.. Use your own instincts. I wouldn't be concerned with other's interpretation if you want to develop your own. Trust your own musical instinct.

TheBasicBassist · #8 03-06-2010, 10:46 PM

How about trying to sing it first?

fdeck · #9 03-07-2010, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBasicBassist

How about trying to sing it first?

Doodle deedle deedle doodle
doodle deedle deedle doodle...

Nope, didn't help.

KingCrimson · #10 03-07-2010, 08:51 PM

Jeese, here i shall post a video when i have the time, of it when i get my phrasing down and everything.

This piece REALLY will get you on technique, the stretches are ridiculous, so fret noise is hard to avoid at times.......

bassmanjla · #11 03-07-2010, 11:39 PM

so.. how exactly do you go about playing Cello music on a bass?? it's all written in treble clef right? so what if you can't read Treble yet??

**Pacman** · #12 03-08-2010, 12:01 AM

Cello music is written in bass and tenor clefs, not treble.

bassmanjla · #13 03-08-2010, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

Cello music is written in bass and tenor clefs, not treble.

really?? interesting.. .... wait.. what the frak is a tenor clef??

**Pacman** · #14 03-08-2010, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassmanjla

really?? interesting.. .... wait.. what the frak is a tenor clef??

This:

Double bass is known to play in this clef as well.

KingCrimson · #15 03-08-2010, 06:31 AM

Even if it was in treble i don't see how it would be a problem? I regularly have to read charts in treble cleff when i play with a jazz combo. As well treble ain't that hard.

Just think as if everything is shifted up by 2 spaces (and an octave higher).

Roy Vogt · #16 03-08-2010, 06:55 AM

I'd definitely go with Yo Yo Ma or another great cellist's interpretation. Pattitucci played the Prelude on Heart of the Bass on 6 string 8va so that may be worth checking out as well.
It's a revelation if you tune your bass C-G-D-A and see how many open strings are used....
Maybe Bach was writing Bluegrass all along

....

bassmanjla · #17 03-08-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingCrimson

Even if it was in treble i don't see how it would be a problem? I regularly have to read charts in treble cleff when i play with a jazz combo. As well treble ain't that hard.

Just think as if everything is shifted up by 2 spaces (and an octave higher).

well of course.. but like i said.. i'm not able to really read treble, yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

This:

Double bass is known to play in this clef as well.

that is really frakking cool.

I seriously had never heard of a tenor clef before. thats awesome, i love learning new ****.

OldogNewTrick · #18 03-08-2010, 04:18 PM

I like Martin Motnik's interpretation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkZMlP7SRKk

fdeck · #19 03-08-2010, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

It's a revelation if you tune your bass C-G-D-A and see how many open strings are used....

That's certainly a major factor. I learned the first Prelude on cello while in high school, and can still play it with reasonable style and fluency. But on bass? It sounds awkward and un-musical. Now of course a lot of that is just my limited bass technique, but I think that Bach intended these pieces to be played on an instrument tuned in fifths.

xachangea · #20 03-08-2010, 07:01 PM

Well, not only that piece is prone to bass playing. Actually any of those cello suites can be played on a bass, although you probably need a 6 - stringer.

I fingered all the first suite and it suits the bass fine - I had been using a 6 - string-. The only thing is that you SHOULD play it one octave up, because if you play it as written, in case you don't know, the bass sounds one octave below...

If you want it to sound at right pitch you need to play it one octave up. Otherwise the notes that you are supposed to let ring will form some sort of disgusting cacophony.

Another piece that I play all the time as a "warm up" by Bach is his "Pedal Etude" for organ. It suits the bass marvelously, since it has been written for the bass (the bass of the organ). That one you can play in a normal 4-string bass and it certainly is technique demanding if you want to play it really fast.

I hope it helps,

cheers from France,

P. L.