band Suckiness

[swilype]

Hi, this is my first thread here, and yes, Im not that good at bassing. Anyways, im in a band with my brother on guitar and a friend on drums. Our main problem, though, is we cant seem to write good music. We dont have time for lessons (I do, the others dont) so I was wondering if someone could maybe provide a template for a song (chorus, verse, etc...) so we could make a decent song. Thanks

Also, any other help wpuld be appreciated :P

[calebbarton]

Generally, people use music theory to compose. Not always the case, sometimes people use other methods which require "feel" and composition techniques.


Go start learning music theory. You may not understand everything but you have a vast wilderness of ideas and teachings here in this forum to help you.

Don't assume that you can not do it and there fore should not try to learn. That is stupid. Don't be stupid.

[simonwong]

Use 1-6-4-5 progression, it won't go wrong.

[swilype]

Well, I plan to start taking lessons soon, but the guitarist and drummer are really busy, so they wont have any time for lessons, although my brother does know a little theory.

[swilype]

also, I am unfamiliar with the 1-6-4-5 progression, sorry :/

[Stumbo]

Learn some popular cover songs. Study them for structure/lyrics/content.
Rinse and repeat a few hundred times. Goes along way toward writing your own.

Lots of books on topic from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Shortcuts-Hit-...m_cr_pr_sims_t

[OOZMAN]

So far... all advice is very good, especially the 'learn cover songs.'

[swilype]

hmm... im familiar with some riffs: money (pink floyd), this is the place (rhcp), seven nation army (white stripes), and maybe a few more. but whenever I try to write something, itll sound pretty cool, but then ill realize that it pretty much copies part of another song, any way to avoid that?

[name44]

Originally Posted by swilype

Well, I plan to start taking lessons soon, but the guitarist and drummer are really busy, so they wont have any time for lessons, although my brother does know a little theory.

+1 on taking lessons. Best thing you could do to improve. You will go farther and improve faster (although it's not a race) with a good teacher.

[BillyIVbass]

Sounds like you need to listen and learn a ton of music. With lessons being as free and as simple as searching Google or YouTube, I don't buy the "we don't have time" I don't want to sound like a jerk, but that sounds like you aren't disciplined.

[SeaBassSteve]

There is no " set template " for a son. It's not like writing a word document!
This sounds like someone who knows very little music and is too lazy to learn.

[JakeAndAirwaves]

Depends on genre.

Pop punk usually goes

Intro
Verse
Chorus
Verse(s)
Maybe an interlude
Chorus
Outro

[IcosianBass]

Originally Posted by swilype

also, I am unfamiliar with the 1-6-4-5 progression, sorry :/

you substitute numbers for chordes in a key. This works with any starting point and you just have to adjust accordingly. Lets say 1 = E 2 = F#m 3 = G#m 4 = A(i prefer using an A2 i think its called) 5 = B and 6 = C#m

so the 1-6-4-5 progression would be E - C#m - A - B
then change up the patterns to build structure. maybe something like

verse 1-6-4-5
pre-chorus 4-6-5-5(with the bass maybe playing the 7 over the second 5 which would be a B/D#)
chorus 1-4-1-5
verse
pre-chorus
chorus
brigde 6-4-1-5-4-4-4-4
chorus

obviously this isnt law and you can do what you like, its music after all. and you can structure a song however you like, but its just something to maybe help you out!

[Essen]

Learn some cover songs, just so that you get used to playing together. And base song structurting on songs you like. Start with a riff or some chords, and find something that would fit as a chorus etc.
You don't need to know much theory to start making songs.

[Waffles and Scotch]

^ What they said.

When I was just starting out I found I often came up with really cool stuff in my head while I was in the shower. I'd picture myself on stage, come up with a lead guitar riff, bass riff, etc, jump out, figure out a simple version of what I'd created, record it, then revisit it again and again over the next couple weeks and make minor improvements, new parts, etc. On Megascience on the Science channel they said the increased oxygen content and change in polarization of the air when you're showering (or when it's raining) stimulates thought processes. Not sure how true that is, but it makes sense I suppose.

And yes, I would jump out of the shower butt *** naked and start playing. Usually only dried off my head and arms to avoid getting any water on my bass...

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by swilype

Hi, this is my first thread here, and yes, Im not that good at bassing. Anyways, im in a band with my brother on guitar and a friend on drums. Our main problem, though, is we cant seem to write good music. We dont have time for lessons (I do, the others dont) so I was wondering if someone could maybe provide a template for a song (chorus, verse, etc...) so we could make a decent song. Thanks

Also, any other help wpuld be appreciated :P

There are several skills we need to be good musicians. We need to be a good player. We need good stage presence. We need to have good tone and good volume balance. We need to have a good ear. We need to have good vocals. And we need to be a good songwriter.

Most of us don't have all of those skills. My weakest point is vocals. Good songwriting skills elude many musicians. There are a lot of original bands that write mediocre originals without a hook.

Play some covers and study the songs and see what makes them a good song. Then try to write an original.

[Martin89]

Originally Posted by swilype

hmm... im familiar with some riffs: money (pink floyd), this is the place (rhcp), seven nation army (white stripes), and maybe a few more. but whenever I try to write something, itll sound pretty cool, but then ill realize that it pretty much copies part of another song, any way to avoid that?

There's not really a way to avoid copying part of another song as there are already thousands of songs copying each other. Just make it a little different, songs will always sound like other songs though. The more you play and listen the more you'll hear popular progressions etc. And for good reason, they sound good.

[clutebass]

Originally Posted by swilype

but whenever I try to write something, itll sound pretty cool, but then ill realize that it pretty much copies part of another song, any way to avoid that?

I once heard Billy Sheehan say "Good writers write, great writers steal." So yeah maybe your stuff sounds like other songs NOW but as you play more and listen more you can start to use bits an pieces of other songs as a way to create your own stuff. I don't mean ripping off a riff here or a bassline there. I mean maybe you like the way the band does a bass and drums break down before the solo, or you like that the intro of the song is the same as the chorus just with a guitar solo etc. Listening will be key as a beginner song writer. But take all this advice as merely that. I am no expert!

[P-oddz]

Sorry dude, but you just don't pick up an instrument, join a band, and then make great music. You need to practice your instruments, write a ton of crappy songs, scrap them all, weed out parts, practice your instruments, write more crappy songs, scrap those, and then practice your instruments.

The only key to great songwriting (in my opinion) is talent. Talent can be acheived from knowledge of your instrument, knowledge of music (so listen to everything and anything), and talent also can come naturally. If you don't have natural talent, you need to learn it. The only way to learn it is by practicing, writing, listening, and then practicing and writing some more.

I learned bass when I was 13. I played some covers poorly for a few years and then dropped bass. I picked it up again in my early 20's, played some crappy covers and then decided to try my hand at writing. I spent a few years amassing ideas, and progressing as a writer and a musician. I taught myself guitar, drum and recording fundamentals. I taught my ears to listen. I practiced all the time. I am now 32 and in a band that I am super proud of, and (in my opinion) writing great music. It didn't just come to me. In fact we've been together for 5 years now as a band, and have only just really hit our stride and our full potential as of a year ago (and that is even after recording an EP and a full length).

So in closing, practice, learn, teach yourself by reading (there is no excuse in this day and age with so many references available to you) and practice again. Find inspiration in what you do, and if you have the passion for it, you will be successful. Also, your success is now dependent upon the passion of the other guys you are playing with. They have to be willing to do all of this as well. If not, you need to move on or accept that you will just be some guys getting together and farting around on instruments.

Did I mention practice?

[TRichardsbass]

Plus one for P-odds.

I have a songwriting partnership and would love to sell you some songs if you really need material.

I also do some songwriting workshops, including online, if you are interested. Song writing is a craft like any other, however you do need to have some experience to make it all work. Anyone can write a song. Very few can write a good song. Even fewer can write great songs.