Bass Lessons Moving Really Slow

[prater]

So I started lessons two weeks ago. I've been fooling around with guitar and bass for nearly ten years without any real understanding of what I was doing, but I could play alot of songs and picked up some good general knowledge along the way.

So I start my first ever music lessons. The first week my teacher showed me one arpeggio and a couple of practice techniques which I practice and become proficient at over the next week. Second lesson, he shows me two more arpeggios and shows me octaves which I already knew from playing guitar and that was it. After learning the first arpeggio the week before the second two he showed me came fairly easily to me and I felt kind of weird after that lesson like I didn't really learn anything. I thought I would be learning some scales or something.

I'm not sure if I'm having unrealistic expectations or maybe this is normal. I'm wondering if it would be appropriate to try to encourage him to challenge me a little bit more, or if I should let him teach me his own way and see what happens.

[Stumbo]

I'd let him know you'd like to move a lot faster and have him show you more at each lesson.

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

I'd let him know you'd like to move a lot faster and have him show you more at each lesson.

+1 You are paying him, which makes him your employee. You should learn what you want to learn at the pace you want to learn it.

[sammyp]

i teach guitar and bass for a living ....usually when a teacher realizes the student already has a grasp (from another instrument) on what is being taught he will or should regroup a bit ...pick and proud and try to find out what his new student already knows or doesn't know....this doesn't seem to be happening in your case...

if he's showing you one or two arps that you already have a grasp on he should be showing you most of the possible fingerings off 3 or 4 root notes.

it's one thing to know and understand octaves on bass but you also need a few serious exercises to prepare you for the types of grooves you'll come up against.

he should also be teaching you a tune or two that will challenge your ability a bit ...yet something you can get together in a week or so ....

any new bass player should be learning some classic bass lines ala....Stand by Me, Beatles - taxman, come together, day tripper, Money etc etc .....whether they come easy or not, it's great and important stuff to our world!

at this point it does sound a little slow for you!

[Ed Fuqua]

You could just have a bad teacher, how did you find this one? Do you know anyone else who has studied with him for awhile? How did they sound when they started? How do they sound now?

As far as "let him know you'd like to move a lot faster" and he's "your employee" who should teach "at the pace you want to learn it", I heartily disagree. When you get a good teacher, THEY are in a much better positon to guide the pace of instruction, to keep you growing in a focused, consistent and progressive way. THEY are going to be a much better judge of when you have REALLY nailed a concept or approach and when you're still skating a little. And, just like building a house, you don't want to build walls on top of a foundation that isn't really finished or has sections that aren't quite solid.

I was going through a pretty rough time with playing in the early 90s - there were so many cats in NY that had SO much to say in their playing and I had hit a wall, I just could not play with that kind of meaning and intent and had no idea how to get there - and somebody handed me the attached article from the guy who was to become my teacher for about 14 or 15 years.
Joe Solomon Bass Workshop

[dalkowski]

Originally Posted by prater

I'm not sure if I'm having unrealistic expectations or maybe this is normal. I'm wondering if it would be appropriate to try to encourage him to challenge me a little bit more, or if I should let him teach me his own way and see what happens.

Set specific, achievable learning goals with your teacher. It will help him create a teaching plan for you, and it will help keep you motivated.

What you describe sounds like he's throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

Good luck and have fun!

[sammyp]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

You could just have a bad teacher, how did you find this one? Do you know anyone else who has studied with him for awhile? How did they sound when they started? How do they sound now?

As far as "let him know you'd like to move a lot faster" and he's "your employee" who should teach "at the pace you want to learn it", I heartily disagree. When you get a good teacher, THEY are in a much better positon to guide the pace of instruction, to keep you growing in a focused, consistent and progressive way. THEY are going to be a much better judge of when you have REALLY nailed a concept or approach and when you're still skating a little. And, just like building a house, you don't want to build walls on top of a foundation that isn't really finished or has sections that aren't quite solid.

I was going through a pretty rough time with playing in the early 90s - there were so many cats in NY that had SO much to say in their playing and I had hit a wall, I just could not play with that kind of meaning and intent and had no idea how to get there - and somebody handed me the attached article from the guy who was to become my teacher for about 14 or 15 years.
Joe Solomon Bass Workshop

i agree with your points on the teacher/ employee thing....whole heartedly ...that's a bad attitude to have towards a should be mentor!

[SMaubass]

Wow... my teacher gave me all the scales and appregios at once my second week

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

+1 You are paying him, which makes him your employee. You should learn what you want to learn at the pace you want to learn it.

I disagree with this way of thinking. I have a degree in music. I know pedagogy. I've been playing for 30 years. I assume these are reasons you want to study with me. It also means that I know a little about pace and what you need to know and when.

While I agree it does seem that you are moving kind of slowly, without knowing more, I have to assume your teacher has a plan. Di you and your teacher visit about expectations for each of you before you started?

When I was doing lessons, I spelled it out for my kids. We are here to learn bass and music - that means reading notes, rhythms, etc. Not TAB, not all by ear (you have to do some by ear stuff of course) but you will leave lessons knowing basics of music. We also spent time doing specific things the student wanted to do - usually songs or lines.

In my opinion, 2 weeks isn't enough time to make a decision. I would ask your teacher what he's thinking and maybe there can be some adjustments made.

If that doesn't work, try another teacher. Not every teacher or style works with every student. Not the end of the world.

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by sammyp

i agree with your points on the teacher/ employee thing....whole heartedly ...that's a bad attitude to have towards a should be mentor!

In a perfect world I agree with you. In the real world I don't agree. The OP has been playing for 10 years; that's long enough to know what he wants to learn and what pace he is capable of moving at.

He should work with the teacher to make sure the teacher understands his goals and has a program to achieve those goals. Many teachers have a one size fits all style and that may not work for the OP. Nothing makes you quit lessons like being bored and not feeling like you are making progress toward YOUR goals.

Also, being a mentor is earned. You don't build that kind of trust in two weeks.

I've been very spoiled. My first teacher in college was fantastic and every teacher I've had since then came highly recommended. The first thing all of them wanted to know was what my goals were; they then worked out a program that made sure I learned the proper foundation AND what I wanted to learn.

Originally Posted by SteveC

I disagree with this way of thinking. I have a degree in music. I know pedagogy. I've been playing for 30 years. I assume these are reasons you want to study with me. It also means that I know a little about pace and what you need to know and when.

I'm sure your students are very lucky. However, I taught at a music store, filling in for a friend on tour, and I can assure you that from that experience, and other things I've seen, not all students are so lucky.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by SteveC

I disagree with this way of thinking. I have a degree in music. I know pedagogy. I've been playing for 30 years. I assume these are reasons you want to study with me. It also means that I know a little about pace and what you need to know and when.

While I agree it does seem that you are moving kind of slowly, without knowing more, I have to assume your teacher has a plan. Di you and your teacher visit about expectations for each of you before you started?

When I was doing lessons, I spelled it out for my kids. We are here to learn bass and music - that means reading notes, rhythms, etc. Not TAB, not all by ear (you have to do some by ear stuff of course) but you will leave lessons knowing basics of music. We also spent time doing specific things the student wanted to do - usually songs or lines.

In my opinion, 2 weeks isn't enough time to make a decision. I would ask your teacher what he's thinking and maybe there can be some adjustments made.

If that doesn't work, try another teacher. Not every teacher or style works with every student. Not the end of the world.

True, but at $25-$30 a lesson I'd want to know what my teacher's plan was and how it was supposedly helping me out.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all about taking lessons, but at the cost of taking them I'd want to be moving at my own pace.

[wrench45us]

If it was me, I'd definitely express this frustration and see what the response is. Some teachers are not very good or flexible or sensitive to the student. Some teach everybody the same way for all time. And some are Yoda-like in their wisdom and approach.
I have a friend who's taking lessons late in life and the teacher keeps saying, "You don't have to do this." That seems to serve as a way of clarifying the intention

[Ed Fuqua]

OK. Good luck with that.
Have a blessed day.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by prater

So I started lessons two weeks ago. I've been fooling around with guitar and bass for nearly ten years without any real understanding of what I was doing, but I could play alot of songs and picked up some good general knowledge along the way.

So I start my first ever music lessons. The first week my teacher showed me one arpeggio and a couple of practice techniques which I practice and become proficient at over the next week. Second lesson, he shows me two more arpeggios and shows me octaves which I already knew from playing guitar and that was it. After learning the first arpeggio the week before the second two he showed me came fairly easily to me and I felt kind of weird after that lesson like I didn't really learn anything. I thought I would be learning some scales or something.

I'm not sure if I'm having unrealistic expectations or maybe this is normal. I'm wondering if it would be appropriate to try to encourage him to challenge me a little bit more, or if I should let him teach me his own way and see what happens.

What do you mean when you say he showed you one arpeggio? Did he show you a 2 octave C major or something? Well can you play that 2 octave arpeggio in all 12 keys and name the notes both ascending a descending?

Or do you just want a guy that teaches you how to slap and shows you some licks that sound cool at Guitar Center?

Taking lessons teaches you how to practice. As you practice practicing you learn how to play.

[Swampman Cory]

Sounds like you want a theory guy, and it doesn't exactly sound like he's providing that. He's at least not adapting lessons to your progress (according to your post).

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Swampman Cory

Sounds like you want a theory guy, and it doesn't exactly sound like he's providing that. He's at least not adapting lessons to your progress (according to your post).

This. I'd be contacting my local college's jazz music dept and seeing if they know a bass teacher who teaches jazz concepts that they can recommend. While I strongly disagree with the premise that the student is the boss because he's paying the teacher (if you know enough to dictate the lesson plan, why do you even need a teacher in the first place?), I get the feeling that the OP's teacher isn't taking him where he wants to go.

[velalv]

Originally Posted by sammyp

i agree with your points on the teacher/ employee thing....whole heartedly ...that's a bad attitude to have towards a should be mentor!

I kind of see both points here. I have been self taught for the last year and a half. I just took my first lesson. The teacher went through with me a few exercises that I already knew how to do (octaves, major, minor scales, shuffle rythms, playing with a pick for some lines), and did the lines in some classic songs like stand by me, day tripper, etc.

But, within that lesson, he adjusted and had me working on hammer ons and pull offs, and was immediately able to spot two flaws in my technique-- my slides were off because I was using too much pressure on my thumb, and thus choking the sound, and not keeping my right hand fingers close enough to the strings when they were not fretting.

Technically, just because you pay the guy does not make him your employee, it makes him an independant contractor (being an employee has a whole number of rights and obligations that attach to that). It means that he or she is supposed to use their judgment to help meet the overall goals defined by you.

In this case, I presume your goal is to be a better bass player. In order to best exercise his judgment concerning what to teach you, he should evaluate or interview you to ensure you have, but you should let him direct the lessons instead of giving specific lessons you want to be taught. Of course, IMO, etc. (Sorry also if my tone sounded pompous, I did not mean to be, just sharing my experience). Good luck in your decisions and studies.

[dtiii]

Maybe, be a bit more patient. You can also take a bit of initiative with the info that your teacher is sharing with you. Try mapping out the arp on the entire fingerboard. After that, see how many full-range paths you can carve out and then exercise those paths... in a musical way, of course. Practice it to a drum machine... set up a groove and every fourth measure play a fill that only uses the arp... use a different path for each fill, etc... There are so many ways to practice it. Be creative. Being a student doesn't particularly mean sitting back and waiting for someone to show you something.

d

ps... thanks for sharing that article Mr. Fuqua.

[fdeck]

I've gone to new teachers, a few times on my life on various instruments, and have also observed the teachers giving lessons to my kids.

If I went to a teacher, I would be surprised and disappointed if he or she did not immediately focus on correcting problems with my technique, tone, musicianship, knowledge, etc.

I can go through exercise books and learn tunes by myself. What I can't do is take a detached look at my playing and figure out what I'm doing wrong, or where changes would help me advance.

I was self taught on BG, and took my first lessons the summer after high school. I was pretty confident about my abilities. My teacher told me that I was doing it all wrong, and that I had to start from scratch. It was humbling and frustrating, but after a few months of hell, the work paid off.

It helped that there was no guesswork involved in knowing whether he was a good teacher -- he was very well regarded.