Bass lessons: Are they "all or nothing"?

[Adam Bomb]

Disclaimer: From time to time, I ask questions on TB that seem to hit a nerve with some people. I don’t mean to. But I have a feeling that this might be one of those questions. Of course, flame and snipe away if you cannot help yourself. But this is a real question. Sorry in advance for being so wordy.

OK. I have been playing bass for 5 years and playing in bands for 2. So far I am basically self taught. Never really ruled out lessons but I have not been in a hurry, especially since The Worst Bass Lesson in the World, which I had with a local craigslist-trolling instructor about a year ago. (“Why is it called a ‘minor third’?” “IT JUST IS!!!”)

But now I am motivated. I have just joined the best band I’ve played in so far. (Rock-funk.) I passed the audition; they like my playing. I lock in solid with the drummer and I write interesting bass lines. Bands have loved me, which I find baffling, but they do. But I want to make sure that I keep up with these new guys.

So now I am willing to take lessons. But here’s the thing: I really don’t feel like doing the wax-on/wax-off thing, playing scales and trying to remember words like “phrygian”. I’m too busy rocking out! I’m all for fixing bad habits, and I’m open to playing some scales, but I don’t want to wait for a year before I start seeing results.

I know how to be serious and humble and patient and start at the beginning and spend years concentrating on the basics. I have done that in half a dozen different disciplines in my life. (I’m not a kid.) I just don’t feel like doing that with this, right now. Also, I love playing bass. After loved ones and sex, playing the bass is the thing I will miss the most when I’m dead. But I *am* playing bass, already. I do not feel a drive to master the instrument. I want only to hold my own and have fun. And not in that order.

So my question is: Is it possible, realistic, to find an instructor who will just give me tips on technique and teach me cool stuff that I can break out at rehearsal to dazzle my very talented bandmates? I ask here because I don’t want to go around burning bridges making inappropriate requests of the local instructors, if in fact that is inappropriate. If I *have* to care what the names of the modes are in order to take lessons, I will wait to start taking lessons.

Thank you for any constructive feedback you have to give.

--Bomb

[HaVIC5]

There are only so many "party tricks" any teacher could possibly show you without a solid background in theory, technique, etc, etc. You might be able to find somebody who can give you what you want, but if you do, it's unlikely they have too much "up their sleeve" to dole out to somebody who doesn't know the language. If you geniunely have no interest in understanding the structure of music, then you genuinely have no need for a teacher. For what its worth, I believe it to be all or nothing.

EDIT: I didn't mean to sound condescending, if thats how this post sounded. I would think in your case you'd best be served just learning from you band mates and playing in the band. Peer teaching is one of the best ways of learning.

[Ed Fuqua]

Well, you really won't miss anything, you'll be dead. But it's not about "dazzling" anyone, it's about getting as deep as you want to go into music. Ray Brown had a great thing to say, " The better we play, the fewer who get it...". At some point this has got to be more about looking within than looking outside of yourself for justification of what you're doing.

[Big White Brick]

sounds to me like the kind of learning you want to do is more about physically improving speed and accuracy and being able to keep up while at the same time being creative. You can look online in places like youtube to find out "correct" fingering, some practice scales(you might even accidently learn the names if you practice them enough), speed and agility excercises. All these things add up and one day you realise that you are more capable and skilled than you think.

You dont have to do anymore than you want to. If an instructor gives you nothing more than motivation then sometimes that is enough. Pick up some dvds of bands you like and learn to play their setlist with them. Get some tab, get some sheet music(this is an invaluable thing to know) and get to work.

Then when you are still not satisfied you can walk into an instructors studio and play really well. Any good instructor will know how to work with you to fill in the gaps.

[akaTRENT]

trust me. in time you will want to learn it all. just dont force lessons. i have been playing for 5 years now and only got the nerve to take serious lessons 2 moths ago.

[Kael]

The following is based upon my dealing with a lot of differing musicians of varying levels of music thery under their belt.

Learn the ideas behind how differing scales, modes and chords are constructed. This helps immensely in communicating with other musicians. You don't have to immediately do anything massively impressive with this knowledge. Just be able to verbally convey musical ideas. Really makes working with musicians much easier if everyone is using the same language. Eventually modes become useful, but for the moment I'd recommend building up your ability to "speak music".

PS: That guy who wouldn't explain why a minor third is a minor third is a douche. That's a very valid question related to what I was discussing above.

[onlyclave]

I think www.bassguitarsecrets.com reveals what we've been hiding from you.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Adam Bomb

Disclaimer: From time to time, I ask questions on TB that seem to hit a nerve with some people. I don’t mean to. But I have a feeling that this might be one of those questions. Of course, flame and snipe away if you cannot help yourself. But this is a real question. Sorry in advance for being so wordy.

OK. I have been playing bass for 5 years and playing in bands for 2. So far I am basically self taught. Never really ruled out lessons but I have not been in a hurry, especially since The Worst Bass Lesson in the World, which I had with a local craigslist-trolling instructor about a year ago. (“Why is it called a ‘minor third’?” “IT JUST IS!!!”)

But now I am motivated. I have just joined the best band I’ve played in so far. (Rock-funk.) I passed the audition; they like my playing. I lock in solid with the drummer and I write interesting bass lines. Bands have loved me, which I find baffling, but they do. But I want to make sure that I keep up with these new guys.

So now I am willing to take lessons. But here’s the thing: I really don’t feel like doing the wax-on/wax-off thing, playing scales and trying to remember words like “phrygian”. I’m too busy rocking out! I’m all for fixing bad habits, and I’m open to playing some scales, but I don’t want to wait for a year before I start seeing results.

I know how to be serious and humble and patient and start at the beginning and spend years concentrating on the basics. I have done that in half a dozen different disciplines in my life. (I’m not a kid.) I just don’t feel like doing that with this, right now. Also, I love playing bass. After loved ones and sex, playing the bass is the thing I will miss the most when I’m dead. But I *am* playing bass, already. I do not feel a drive to master the instrument. I want only to hold my own and have fun. And not in that order.

So my question is: Is it possible, realistic, to find an instructor who will just give me tips on technique and teach me cool stuff that I can break out at rehearsal to dazzle my very talented bandmates? I ask here because I don’t want to go around burning bridges making inappropriate requests of the local instructors, if in fact that is inappropriate. If I *have* to care what the names of the modes are in order to take lessons, I will wait to start taking lessons.

Thank you for any constructive feedback you have to give.

--Bomb

think of learning music as a journey,not a destination......the best players in the world will tell you that they are still learning

[MaxMaps]

Be straight forward in your approach to a teacher, find some one who is educated and experienced and say what you have here.

Find a teacher that works and clicks for you, there are many many amazing instructors out there you just have to have the will to find them.

If you live in Saint Paul, MIN you can take lessons from Bill Dickens

Also look at other things that have helped you develop as a player and use those as well a teacher can be a part of helping you develop as a player with many different things.

Some people like teachers others don't, just find what works for you.

[Rudreax]

I'd say don't bother. Based on what you said you want to be able to do right now, you will be better off just playing with many, many people. At some point you'll run into some that will ask you about your knowledge, and at that point you can decide if you want to learn more.

[JimmyM]

You have a total misconception of lessons. Waiting a year for results? Listen, it does require a level of patience, but not THAT much of a level. I saw results instantly when I took lessons, and it only got better from there on out.

But if you're not going to learn the program, don't waste your money and time taking lessons. Taking lessons requires the ability to hush up and listen, and you don't sound like you have that in you. Which is fine...but don't bother with lessons unless you're willing to commit.

[20db pad]

Originally Posted by MaxMaps

If you live in Saint Paul, MIN you can take lessons from Bill Dickens

Bill works out of a town in the north of the Chicago, Illinois area and gets $100 and hour.......

[Adam Bomb]

Thank you all for your thoughts.

Originally Posted by Big White Brick

sounds to me like the kind of learning you want to do is more about physically improving speed and accuracy and being able to keep up while at the same time being creative.

This describes where I am at right now *very* well. I am just starting to get my ideas out on the fly. I want to make sure that as my ideas improve I can get those out too. In concrete terms, at the mo, I would just like to play better fills.

Originally Posted by onlyclave

I think www.bassguitarsecrets.com reveals what we've been hiding from you.

Evil!!!! LOL

--Bomb

[Adam Bomb]

Originally Posted by akaTRENT

trust me. in time you will want to learn it all. just dont force lessons. i have been playing for 5 years now and only got the nerve to take serious lessons 2 moths ago.

Oh, snap! And it hasn't stopped you. Yeah, I've got lessons somewhere in my future, but TY for the concrete example that self taught does not necessarily mean doomed or whatever.

--Bomb

[Asher S]

One-on-one, in person (not online!) lessons from a *good teacher* are invaluable for any player, at any age or stage in life/career. And yes, with practice the "results" can be almost immediate, depending on where you set your result-o-meter.

For some initial online guidance/inspiration and insight into what you might want to work on with a live teacher, have a look at:

1. This video on bass grooves by Nathan East, arguably one of the most successful studio bassists in BG history: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUr87e1u3uk
2. This series of videos on one of Vic Wootens clinics. His philosophy and approach will help you determine what you might want to learn from a teacher:

• go to http://www.bassplayer.tv/
• in the menu on the left, click on "Artist Features"
• scroll down a bit, and click on "Victor Wooten"
• watch Exercises 1 and Exercises 2

[Rossman59]

Here's a thread that might help until you get a teacher -

Where can i learn scales?.

[akaTRENT]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

You have a total misconception of lessons. Waiting a year for results? Listen, it does require a level of patience, but not THAT much of a level. I saw results instantly when I took lessons, and it only got better from there on out.

But if you're not going to learn the program, don't waste your money and time taking lessons. Taking lessons requires the ability to hush up and listen, and you don't sound like you have that in you. Which is fine...but don't bother with lessons unless you're willing to commit.

exactly kinda harsh but needed to be said, and thats the exactly what i was like.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

There are only so many "party tricks" any teacher could possibly show you without a solid background in theory, technique, etc, etc. You might be able to find somebody who can give you what you want, but if you do, it's unlikely they have too much "up their sleeve" to dole out to somebody who doesn't know the language. If you geniunely have no interest in understanding the structure of music, then you genuinely have no need for a teacher. For what its worth, I believe it to be all or nothing.

EDIT: I didn't mean to sound condescending, if thats how this post sounded. I would think in your case you'd best be served just learning from you band mates and playing in the band. Peer teaching is one of the best ways of learning.

+1

And I don't see anything mean or condescending about that reply.

I'm a bass teacher with 25 students. Generally speaking, with adults, I give them more say in what they want to learn and what they don't want to learn. I have serious mixed emotions about that, for the very reason HaVIC5 stated. I quickly run out of pyrotechnics and party tricks. Even things like speed and dexterity exercises don't last very long, because it's largely up to the student to do that at home practice sessions. And then we just go over songs by ear and use TAB, because my student made it clear he doesn't want to sight read and learn formal music concepts. I need a paycheck, so I don't push too hard, but it's far from the ideal.

I played in a very popular cover band during the decade of my 20's. I had never had a lesson in my life, but I was keeping up with and complimenting some of the best musicians in town. We played all over the state and I totally enjoyed the notariety. When the band finally ended, I had nothing in my musical repertoire except the cover songs that I had learned over the years and a small bag of tricks.

I started piano at the age of 34, learned formal sight reading on bass and treble clef and technical music concepts, including things like "phrygian." My eyes were opened to all the things I had been missing. I realized that there is so much you won't learn or understand by jamming, learning covers, and performing in a good band.

If you intend to take lessons, but you want to limit or filter the way the teacher teaches, you are not really doing yourself any favors. There are method books for what you want to learn. Ideally, formal music education is an eyes-ears-and-mind-wide-open proposition, or it's just a glorified jam session that you pay for.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by akaTRENT

exactly kinda harsh but needed to be said, and thats the exactly what i was like.

+1

If you are going to study music, study the principles and names of the materials used. I feel very strongly that lessons should include reading, knowledge of chords, and pieces of music. There are only a few formulas to remember and you will always be able to workout what notes to use if you know how chords work. Music is a lifetimes worth of work. A couple of years solid lessons covering the building blocks of music will set you on the path.

It is fine to take or not take lessons. Don't waste your money if your not ready to commit to a teacher and do the work they assign.

And Minor thirds just is? He should not be teaching.

[Bruce Lindfield]

People talk about scales and modes - but I often find the most interesting things I discover are about rhythms - tying across bar-lines, shifting patterns, 3 against 4 or other time signatures, clave patterns etc. etc.

There's lots you could learn about and these kind of things are often not immediately obvious without the help of a teacher ...?