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  #1  
Old 07-22-2011, 07:55 PM
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Beginner!!!! Which players should I be transcribing??

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A big hello to everyone in Talkbass land. I need some direction and advice. Please don't hate on me too much, as I'm a guitarist who wants to learn to play bass properly, one thing I don't want to sound like is a guitarist who has picked up a bass. I aspire to play in the same vein as Jamiroquai's bass player, Paul Turner. I've started to learn to read bass clef, and am currently practicing playing 7th arpeggios through 2 5 1's via the circle of fourths. My big question which players should I start transcribing lines from starting from the bassics. I want to set a good solid foundation for my playing.

Thanks in advance for any advice and tips thrown my way.

Andrew
  #2  
Old 07-22-2011, 08:59 PM
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paul mcartney, flea, james jamerson, john paul jones, john entwistle, ..

any music you like just play along to it on bass
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  #3  
Old 07-22-2011, 09:14 PM
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You have the right attitude.

Learn groove. Learning notes will come fast for you since you are a guitarist. Learning to groove takes time. The trick is, not forcing it. Start simple and lock in with the drummer (drum track if necessary). Don't try to rush complicated bass licks. Those rarely fit in, so let them come where it's natural.

If you want the spotlight, strap the guitar back on. If you want to kick back on stage left (or right) and watch the crowd dance to the groove you're dropping, then keep the bass on.
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  #4  
Old 07-23-2011, 04:37 AM
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Transcribe the people you like.
  • Being able to read standard notation will always be a plus.
  • If you are a beginner is transcribing where you need to be spending your time? If this is a skill you bring to the table already - sure have at it.
  • Your bass is different than your 6 string and is played differently. Rhythm guitarist tend to fill their bass lines with too much "stuff". I speak from experience here.
  • Accompaniment bass use chord tones. Solo bass use scales. Right at first lead breaks will not be coming so think chord tones.

Fake chord and or lead sheet, which has no bass clef will probably be where you will be gathering most of your sheet music. This means you will be composing your own bass lines. Getting some generic bass lines into muscle memory is where I'd point you right at first. Here is a great book on how to build a bass line. Amazon.com: Building Walking Bass Lines (9780793542048): Ed Friedland: Books

Here is a cut and paste that may come in handy.


Bass Patterns based upon the Major Scale box.

Code:
Major Scale Box. 

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
Place the root (R) on the C note 4th string 8th fret and the C major scale await you.
Place the root (R) on the C note and play the R-3-5 and you have just played the notes of the C major chord aka C arpeggio. Chord progression for this song is G-C-D. Place your box root on a G on the 3rd string. Where is your C? Where is the D? The next song's progression is C-F-G. Place your box root on a C on the 3rd string. Where is your F? Where is your G? Yep, piece of cake.

Placing the root on the third string so the I IV V is all on one fret was perhaps the largest WOW for me. The following chart was helpful:

Basic Chords
Major Triad = R-3-5
Minor Triad = R-b3-5
Diminished Chord = R-b3-b5

7th Chords
Maj7 = R-3-5-7
Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7
Dominant 7 = R-3-5-b7
½ diminished = R-b3-b5-b7
Full diminished = R-b3-b5-bb7

Scales
Major Pentatonic = R-2-3-5-6
Minor Pentatonic = R-b3-4-5-b7
Blues = R-b3-4-b5-5-b7
Major Scale = R-2-3-4-5-6-7
Natural Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7
Harmonic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-7
Melodic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-6-7

Major modes
Ionian same as the Major Scale.
Lydian use the major scale and sharp the 4 - yes, it’s that simple.
Mixolydian use the major scale and flat the 7.

Minor Modes
Aeolian same as the Natural Minor scale.
Dorian use the Natural Minor scale and sharp the b6 back to a natural 6.
Phrygian use the Natural Minor scale and flat the 2.
Locrian use the Natural Minor scale and flat the 2 and the 5.

Generic Notes.
The root, five and eight are generic and fit most any chord. Remember the diminished has a flatted 5.
The 3 is generic to all major chords. See a major chord R-3-5-8 is a generic bass line that will work.
The b3 is generic to all minor chords. See a minor chord R-b3-5-8 is a generic bass line that will work.
The 7 is generic to all maj7 chords. R-3-5-7.
The b7 is generic to all dominant seventh and minor seventh chords. R-3-5-b7 or R-b3-5-b7.
The 6 is neutral and adds color, help yourself to 6’s. I like R-3-5-6 for major chords. Has a great sound.
The 2 and 4 make good passing notes. Don’t linger on them or stop on them, keep them passing.
In making your bass line help yourself to those notes, just use them correctly.
Remember roots, fives, eights and the correct 3 will play a lot of bass.

Online Bass Lessons at StudyBass.com and Bass Guitar for Dummies helped me when I came over to the bottom end.

Have fun.

Last edited by MalcolmAmos : 07-24-2011 at 07:39 AM.
  #5  
Old 07-23-2011, 05:15 AM
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Not that I agree with every single ranking, but here's a place to start...

100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists
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  #6  
Old 07-23-2011, 09:18 AM
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Had to google Jamiroquai, wasn't familiar with Paul Turner. But I think most of this stuff is pretty much timeless and applicable to pop styles in general, especially funk/groove oriented stuff. It's how I approached teaching myself bass after a few decades of guitar playing, anyway. seems to be working out OK. More or less in order of difficulty --

1) Duck Dunn. Great parts, great playing, and most of the time, extremely simple parts. That lets you concentrate on the time, articulation, and intonation (especially if you're learning on fretless) without dealing with a lot of notes or complex fingerings.

Any of the classic Stax stuff will do, Sam and Dave, Eddie Floyd, William Bell, etc. Pick out something you like, work on it until it's easy.

2) James Brown (with various bass players). James wasn't just the late '60s-'70s funk stuff that he finally settled into, pretty broad range of grooves earlier, soul ballads, blues etc. Pick up a "greatest hits" CD, learn those.

It's still pretty simple stuff (for the most part), but there is a good transcription book available, "The Funkmasters" by Allan Slutsky and Chuck Silverman, covers the whole rhythm section.

3) James Jamerson. This is where I had to start writing the parts down, much more syncopation, more notes, more complex parts, denser arrangements. Fortunately there's a great book available, "Standing In The Shadows Of Motown" by Dr. Licks (Allan Slutsky), I'd strongly recommend getting the book.

Most of the stuff I've worked on since is aimed at straight ahead jazz, currently transcribing Larry Gales, dunno if you're interested in that. There is one more book I'd recommend that I think is applicable to pretty much any groove oriented style, "Afro-Cuban Bass Grooves" by Matty Patino and Jorge Moreno. Great book, covers the basic claves and the styles based on them, lists recommended recordings for each style. Generally, no more harmonically complex than the Motown stuff, but new rhythms, great workout for groove, rhythmic precision.

well, those should keep you busy a while
  #7  
Old 07-23-2011, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cire113 View Post
paul mcartney, flea, james jamerson, john paul jones, john entwistle, ..

any music you like just play along to it on bass
Agreed 100%... Then mix in a bit of Bob Babbit, and Geddy Lee.
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  #8  
Old 07-23-2011, 11:10 AM
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nyuk nyuk nyuk

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Looks like you have answered your own question. If you aspire to play like Paul Turner, then get started transcribing some Paul Turner bass lines. Always best to get what you're after directly from the source.

If you are still a beginner and think his bass lines are too advanced for you, try picking out what you can from him anyway. You might not yet be able to execute everything perfectly, but you'll still learn from the process and you will be motivated because you're copying what you like.
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  #9  
Old 07-24-2011, 05:09 AM
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Hey, thanks so much for the advice. I understand the theory behind it all, I played guitar in Jazz and Show bands for years. My left hand works fine, but my right hand needs to catch up, unless I'm using a pick, but that's not the sound I'm going for. Thanks for the list of players to look into, I'm going to get some of the albums those guys played on and start to learn their lines. I've also figured out the basic groove for Cosmic Girl, which I think I've mostly got down, but jumping octaves and playing fast eighth notes on the top note of the octave is driving me nuts. I tend to tense up and start playing sloppy.

Thanks again, I appreciate all the advice.
  #10  
Old 07-24-2011, 10:17 AM
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If you have trouble with you right hand technic you should work on it. At least 5/10 minutes a day.
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