Berklee

[LesClaypoolJR]

My other thread got closed.....

I was wondering, is it really THAT good?
I've been looking into it and it seems worth it, but is it really?

There seems to be a real distinguished bass program there and was wondering if any current students/alumni could pu tthier 2 cents in.....

The money seems a little steep, but if im going to learn as much as some say, it'l be worth it......

So, please voice your opinions.

Jeremy

[Clay_Bass]

Im looking for some guidance here too. Im looking at the one in Boston if that helps. List of some graduates off the top of my head.

Michael Manring
Damian Erskine
Chuck Bianchi

I know Matt Garrison does some teaching there. People seem to say its a great experience but I havent talked to too many graduates.

[gkbass13]

one of my friends is taking clases with matt garrison and im extremely jealous, even though i studied under don byron...one fo the best jazz horn players alive. it seems liek it would deffinitely eb worth it, for a number of reasons. the experience, the connections and the degree. i wish i had decided to go to school for music, i would eb there right now.

[Freddels]

I attended Berklee many many years ago. I transferred to NT after 1 1/2 yrs at Berklee. Berklee can be a great place but don't expect to come out of there as a great player if you're not a great player going in. There are a handful of really amazing players there and then there's the rest (that pay full tuition). If you're one of the really good players then it's a good place to network. A good rule of thumb is to see if you can get a scholarship. If you can, then you're probably one of the better players. If not, then it's very expensive to go there. One of the guys I knew at NT is the the asst chair of the guitar dept at Berklee but I haven't seen him in many years.

The best bang for your buck is North Texas (NT). Tuition is really low (even for out of state) and there are some great players that have come out of NT. But I believe you will have to play some upright there but I think if you declared yourself a comp or theory major that you can get around that but I'm not sure of their requirements right now.

[ebladeboi123]

From what I've been told NT is actually really great. Alot guys from my HS are going there. For drummers it seems to be the place to be.

[gruffpuppy]

Try the 5 week summer program they offer, I liked it but learned more from my fellow players than some of the teachers. Again it is a high speed 5 week program so don't expect the same training the full program would offer but at least it gives you a feel of the school.

[LesClaypoolJR]

yes...im from texas, that owuld be a little closer than Boston hhaha.

But does it have the bass program that Berklee does? I want to learn and grow as i do this, not do it just because of the name...i want the expereance. Which would be a better choice?

[QuintrKD]

I can't honestly speak for either of these programs, but I do think very highly of the Musicdojo.com site. I've taken two courses... the first was a complimentary introduction course (think of it as a test drive). The instructors are all well known and highly respected bassists, and the instruction is highly specialized. It's not quite face-to-face, one-on-one instruction... but its the next best thing considering that you have an opportunity to get constructive feedback on recordings of your assignments, and that instructors make themselves available for questions.

[Ed Fuqua]

Well what are your (more specific) goals? "Learn and grow" sounds great and all, it's just not very specific. You can learn and grow where you are right now.

Pretty much ANY school is going to give you some foundation in the basics. Some, like the Musician's Institute schools or Jeff Berlin's are a little more "air conditioner repair" in that ALL you work on are the technical aspects of whatever music you are pursuing. Schools like Berklee or William Patterson or the New School or North Texas at least have the semblance of being a more general academic program. In order to graduate with a 4 year degree you will have to have a certain number of credits in languages, math, science etc. When I was at Berklee (81,82) they had a pretty liberal transfer policy for these credits; almost everybody I knew had gotten the requirements out of the way at another school. I did end up having to take a couple of Humanities courses, but attendance wasn't strictly enforced and since i did well on the tests, I passed.

But what Freddels says is true. Are you sure you want to spend $40,000 for the privelege of doing remedial classes and lower level ensembles (if you pass audition for any ensembles at all) while you discover your learning curve? And get out after 4 years with the wherewithal to do a clubdate? Nobody at an audition is going to ask where you went to school, they just want to hear how you sound. Can you read well enough to cover the gig? Can you play in enough different styles and feels to cover the gig? Do you already know enough common repertoire to cover the gig? Are you sane enough to do 180 road dates a year without killing somebody, having somebody want to kill you or plain just self destructing? What specific things do you want/think school will give you?

don't get me wrong, I think knowing stuff is better than not knowing stuff. But NO music school is a magic ticket. My suggestion would be:
1. go to some cheap, local college that has a music performance major. Get as many core requirements (math etc.) out of the way as you can
2. find a good private teacher. If you can't find a good bassist to study with, at least try to find a good pianist and start studying functional harmony and improvisational concept with them.
3. PLAY with every freaking musician you can find. If it takes a 3 hour bus ride one way to play with a good drummer (saxophonist, guitarist whatever) DO IT. Also ANY musicians that come to town (from NY or LA), TALK TO THEM as much as you can - what are they working on, what tips do they have for somebody coming up, what's the scene like, what can you do to be ready, can you have a lesson.

After doing that for a couple of years, you should be ready to try to transfer to a bigger school in a bigger place. The more you know, the better you'll be able to take care of yourself in a larger environment. The easier it will be not to get lost.

Musically AND psychologically.

[Freddels]

Originally Posted by LesClaypoolJR

yes...im from texas, that owuld be a little closer than Boston hhaha.

But does it have the bass program that Berklee does? I want to learn and grow as i do this, not do it just because of the name...i want the expereance. Which would be a better choice?

Not sure which has what. NT has Lynn Seaton and Fred Hamilton (guitar teacher but plays a mean bass). Since you're in TX, you should do the road trip and check it out. It's summer now but they have some summer camp programs for bass.

[Freddels]

Originally Posted by Freddels

The best bang for your buck is North Texas (NT). Tuition is really low (even for out of state) and there are some great players that have come out of NT. But I believe you will have to play some upright there but I think if you declared yourself a comp or theory major that you can get around that but I'm not sure of their requirements right now.

As an update, I received a response from NT regarding this. Lynn Seaton is the jazz bass instructor there. He says "It is possible to be admitted as a Jazz Studies Major playing only electric, but 4 semesters of classical upright study is required for all UNT jazz majors. At that time, students will take a classical upper division exam to pass out of classical studies and take the ICE [Improvisation Competency Exam] to get into jazz lessons. Most of the lab bands require both basses to be played well. All other majors require a classical audition and study."

So there you have it.

[Snarf]

You already know most of my experience through PMs, but the point about being a great player going in is very relevant. To network, you have to play with people, to play with people you have to be really, really good. I missed out at the very beginning because I couldn't play upright at that point (now I can). But I'm lucky to get another chance this coming semester meeting all the new people, because I'm staying in the dorms for another year.

[Suckbird]

why not just stay at home and practice many many hours a day and buy a crapload of music books, it will be much cheeper

i just dont get why anyone would like to go to a music school when it costs a crapload of money, you could most likely learn everything at home and become just as good or better... and as somebody said i dont think anyone is going to ask you where you went to school so you can answer like "berklee, the same school as dream theater yyou know.. "..

of course, i've never been on a school like this and i dont know anything about it but i believe the only thing that makes you good is practice.. and play in a band..

[quallabone]

I checked out Berklee and thought it would be ok. I ended up splitting my time between North Texas and The Manhattan school of music (best music school on the planet IMO)

Wherever you go your success will depend entirely on how hard you work. If you're not willing to devote 100% of your time to music don't waste your money. That's just my experience though.

[quallabone]

Originally Posted by Suckbird

why not just stay at home and practice many many hours a day and buy a crapload of music books, it will be much cheeper

-Because I can't teach myself improv as well as Wynton Marsalis can.
-Because I can't teach myself technique as well as Larry Ridley can
-Because very few people can justify or afford to practice as much as most serious people do when they're at school.
-Because I wan't to be cool and tell all of the girls that I have my masters in jazz.

and because all of the music books you buy will end up being RHCP tab books.

[Suckbird]

Originally Posted by quallabone

-Because I can't teach myself improv as well as Wynton Marsalis can.
-Because I can't teach myself technique as well as Larry Ridley can
-Because very few people can justify or afford to practice as much as most serious people do when they're at school.
-Because I wan't to be cool and tell all of the girls that I have my masters in jazz.

and because all of the music books you buy will end up being RHCP tab books.

Well, just get a good private teacher then.
There's plenty of bass players with great technique who are completely self-taught, of course these are probably the ones who had time to practice, and maybe they would have become as good much earlier if somebody taught them how to play, who knows..

also, i didn't mean tab books... music theory books, doesn't even need to be written for bassplayers..

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by quallabone

Wherever you go your success will depend entirely on how hard you work. If you're not willing to devote 100% of your time to music don't waste your money. That's just my experience though.

+1

I've worked with a lot of HS seniors who were trying to plan their college careers. Many of them hope and try in vain to plan a college degree and life based on the things that they like to do. You can't blame them for trying, but the truth of the matter is that many things that are fun to do just don't make a life goal.

If you want to spend your time and money to be a professional bass player, do what the professionals suggest, and find out what the life of a professional bassist is like. Also check out the state of affairs in the music business and see where that is going.

If I were a HS senior and wanted to organize my life so that I could play bass for a living, I'd go to NT and listen to what Lynn Seaton is saying. I studied with Lynn when he lived in Cincinnati and I can tell you he will do you well as a teacher.

If you don't want to learn DB that should be a BIG clue that you may not want to do all you'll need to do.

[Snarf]

Originally Posted by Suckbird

why not just stay at home and practice many many hours a day and buy a crapload of music books, it will be much cheeper

i just dont get why anyone would like to go to a music school when it costs a crapload of money, you could most likely learn everything at home and become just as good or better... and as somebody said i dont think anyone is going to ask you where you went to school so you can answer like "berklee, the same school as dream theater yyou know.. "..

of course, i've never been on a school like this and i dont know anything about it but i believe the only thing that makes you good is practice.. and play in a band..

Okay, you're missing the point of music school, and that is to network. You can't do that with just a private teacher or just studying on your own, you have to be in that environment.

Mentioning the name "Dream Theater" will instantly brand you as a meathead metal loser at Berklee, and it'll be way harder to get in with the good players (because all the good players play jazz).

Also, whoever mentioned DB, you're right. You have to at least be willing to learn to play it if you want to be a pro. There's people that work that don't play DB, but DB improves your chances a great deal, and also means you'll be playing with people immediately. Bass players of any kind are a minority, but electric players that double on upright are in a much better position, from what I've seen.

[LesClaypoolJR]

Originally Posted by Freddels

As an update, I received a response from NT regarding this. Lynn Seaton is the jazz bass instructor there. He says "It is possible to be admitted as a Jazz Studies Major playing only electric, but 4 semesters of classical upright study is required for all UNT jazz majors. At that time, students will take a classical upper division exam to pass out of classical studies and take the ICE [Improvisation Competency Exam] to get into jazz lessons. Most of the lab bands require both basses to be played well. All other majors require a classical audition and study."

So there you have it.

for the upright, do theyintro courses? like for beginners? jw cuz if i do decide to major it'd be nice to know i dont have to buy an upright....im not cheap but ya know...savin is goood...

[Freddels]

The upright would be private lessons and they'd start you wherever you need to start (even if it at the beginning). You'd have to have your own. I don't think they have them for students (at least they didn't when I was there). You can get a decent laminate urb for under $2k.

If you're thinking about going to college for music and haven't decided yet, I guessing that you're thinking about the fall of 2007. You have more than a year and you can learn quite a bit of upright in a year with the help of a good teacher. I had suggested to contact John Adams. He's in the DFW area and should be relatively easy to find.