best scale/mode to use here...

[stedtale]

Hey all-

I'm working up a samba piece with a group and need to solo. i'm just looking for a fresh look (from someone other than me) at the changes.

Here they are:

A section

| Dm9 | Dm9 | EbM9 | EbM9 | Dm9 | Dm9 | EbM9 | EbM9 | C7 | C7 | Bm9 | Bm9 |

B Section

| Dm7 | A7/C# | C9 | Bm9 | BbM9 | BbM9 | Gm7/Bb | Gm7/Bb |


My first thought is to solo mainly in D phyrigian (D Eb F G A Bb C), or D phyrigian dominant (D Eb F# G A Bb C) <---- that's phyrig dom, right? But, I was also thinking an A altered-locrian with some extra chromatics (A Bb C D Eb E F# G G# A).

Any other thoughts/ideas?

thanks!

[Freddels]

Dm9 has a natural E (9) not an Eb.

Dm is: ii in Cmaj; iii in Bbmaj; and vi in Fmaj

So with the nat 9 (E) you can pick Cmaj or Fmaj.

No one scale (unless chromatic) is going to fit over the entire progression b/c it changes keys.

[stedtale]

true, I did avoid that E natural....I was kinda working from the Bb Maj perspective. But the Fmaj and Cmaj open up some other ideas too...and perhaps I switch modes from the A section to B section.

[Freddels]

Write out the logical scale(s) which each chord is derived and determine what differences there are as the chords change.

[Richard Lindsey]

Although I often say that the common approach of "one chord, one mode" is in many cases needlessly overcomplicated, this is one case in which it might benefit you.

Over the Dm9, you could play in D aeolian, or maybe D dorian if you want to play with the sound of the B natural.

Over the Ebmaj, you could try Eb lydian. The A natural in that mode would keep some continuity with the A natural in either of the two D modes I mentioned (common tones, baby).

Over the C7, well, it's however you hear it. If you want to emphasize a little continuity with the preceding Ebmaj7, you might play C mixolydian (which has all of its notes except E in common with Eb lydian). If you want to anticipate the C# in Bm9, you might play a C7b9 (with the Db enharmonically equivalent to a C# of course), which would allow an altered or diminished approach or whatever.

Over the Bm9, maybe B aeolian.

And so forth.

OTOH, you could also just play chromatically off D, since that's where things seem to resolve (if they resolve), and just pick and choose chord and non-chord tones as suits your ear.

I don't think that thinking in terms of "A altered locrian with extra notes" is really going to be of much use to you. First, the tune is not in A in any sense, so it's hard to see how thinking in terms of any A mode would help. Second, by the time you add in the extra notes you practically have all the notes in the chromatic scale anyway, and whatever locrian quality the resulting set of notes might have would be nonexistent. You might as well call it a chromatic blues phrygian.

I think you just have to stay light on your feet here and recognize this isn't one of those cases where you can stick to a single scale/mode.

[stedtale]

Thanks Richard-

Yeah, the more I look at it the more I think your approach is right, I was just looking for a one or two mode possibility because the tune is pretty fast (220-240bpm), that's all. I'll take a look at things and see what I can come up with, common tones all the way....and yes the a locrian business was a little bit...ahh...non-existent

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by stedtale

Thanks Richard-

Yeah, the more I look at it the more I think your approach is right, I was just looking for a one or two mode possibility because the tune is pretty fast (220-240bpm), that's all. I'll take a look at things and see what I can come up with, common tones all the way....and yes the a locrian business was a little bit...ahh...non-existent

If it helps, try focusing for starters on the tones that are different as you go from one mode to the next--for example, from D aeolian to Eb lydian, the only change in the raw ingredients of the mode is that E goes to Eb. Of course, your chord tones (and therefore your tension and release points) change more than that, something of which you have to be mindful.

[stedtale]

Yeah, I think I stick with D dorian, Eb Lydian, C mixolydian (w/b9) and B aeolian. And/or chromatic resolving to D.

[DocBop]

None of the chords are resolving so as Richard say chord/scale would be good starting point. I screwed around with it and was kind of thinking of the Dmi-EbMa7 as being in Eb so taking liberties I was using D Locrian and Eb Lydian. C7 is a non-functioning dominant so C Lydian b7, also try the tritone sub F# Lydian b7 which gives you a nice V-I sound going to the Bmi7. The Bmi7 I was playing that with Harmonic and Melodic minor going back to Dmi7.

Also don't forget other chord sub's too. Like Gmi7 for the EbMa7 that would setup the return to the Dmi7 and since you can always turn a minor into a dominant make the Gmi7 a G7 for real V-I.

[stedtale]

Originally Posted by DocBop

None of the chords are resolving so as Richard say chord/scale would be good starting point. I screwed around with it and was kind of thinking of the Dmi-EbMa7 as being in Eb so taking liberties I was using D Locrian and Eb Lydian. C7 is a non-functioning dominant so C Lydian b7, also try the tritone sub F# Lydian b7 which gives you a nice V-I sound going to the Bmi7. The Bmi7 I was playing that with Harmonic and Melodic minor going back to Dmi7.

Also don't forget other chord sub's too. Like Gmi7 for the EbMa7 that would setup the return to the Dmi7 and since you can always turn a minor into a dominant make the Gmi7 a G7 for real V-I.

Ok, I sat down with it.

For the A section:

I like Doc's idea of the Dm-Eb being in Eb, that's what I hear too, I also hear A natural working nicely in both of those chords...so I guess I hear that part in Eb lydian and D locrian/phyrigian. I liked the sound of slipping from C7 (myxolydian) to the F#7 sub (using the F# lydian b7) resolving to Bm. and moving the Bm through G7 and/or A7 to get back to the Dm.

For the B section:

Dasically Dm (harmonic and melodic minor and lots of chromatics).

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by stedtale

Ok, I sat down with it.

For the A section:

I like Doc's idea of the Dm-Eb being in Eb, that's what I hear too, I also hear A natural working nicely in both of those chords...so I guess I hear that part in Eb lydian and D locrian/phyrigian. I liked the sound of slipping from C7 (myxolydian) to the F#7 sub (using the F# lydian b7) resolving to Bm. and moving the Bm through G7 and/or A7 to get back to the Dm.

For the B section:

Dasically Dm (harmonic and melodic minor and lots of chromatics).

I dunno, I don't think you can really have the opening two chords in Eb, if for no other reason than that the "9" in Dm9 is an E natural. Assuming you want to be fairly consonant, which is not necessarily invariably the case, that's a clash. So D phrygian and D locrian would be out, for me. Also, D locrian has an Ab, which is also a clash. And overall, it doesn't sound as if Eb is the "harmonic resting place," so thinking of the Dm9 in terms of any Eb mode is probably not the first place I'd go to. It really sounds more as if the Dm7/9 is the harmonic center, so you'd normally figure that should be interpreted in a way that gives that chord a sense of "tonicity," if you will. In this view, it's the Eb that creates the tension by going out of the key/mode, and the tension is resolved by going back to D. Regarding the F# lydian dominant sub on the C7, I might think more of an F# half-whole diminished, or some kind of altered. As Doc says, the C lydian dominant is good if you want to "set up" the F# in the upcoming Bm9.

Part of what all this shows you is that chords alone are not always enough to suggest what kind of approach you should take. You have to take into account the melody, and to think what kind of flavor you want the music to have. For example, a Dm9, if thought of as kind of the "i" chord, fits equally well into D aeolian and D dorian, so what would determine which one you would want to use? If the melody uses B naturals, for instance, that would give you an answer. That part of the tune would likely be "felt" as D dorian, so if you want to be in tune with that, you might prefer that mode. On the other hand, if the melody is noncommittal in this regard, or if you want it to sound like less of a harmonic shift when you go to the Eb chord, you might want D aeolian (because the Bb is common to that and to the following Eb lydian).

It always helps to hear the actual tune, as opposed to just the chords.

[stedtale]

When I sat down with it I heard it more as BbM & EbM, but in the end resolving to Dm. That's what I heard, others may hear it differently, and that's fine. That's just what I heard. Of course I could do one round focusing on Dm, one focusing on Eb as the tonal centers. It is hard to really get a feel for the tune without hearing it, or at least "seeing" the melody.

The melody over the Dm9 really seems to resolve when it hits the Eb, that's why to me it sounds more like Eb lydian, even with the Dm9's E natural. I certainly got some great ideas and fresh ways to look at the tune from everybody, you guys are awesome.

[Scot]

Lot's of good advice so far (as usual in this sort of thread).

If I were in my car in route to the rehearsal, knowing I had to play a solo over those changes, I would probably have a copy of either the tune itself (duh) or Wayne Shorter's "Speak No Evil" in the CD player. Wayne plays brilliantly over that one and I would recommend having a listen to that one (again?) before you do anything.

A D minor pentatonic scale will get you through the first 8 bars of the A section nicely (gotta love that #11 and 13 on the EbM9) and, of course, you can use the E and B natural notes as well on the D minor chord if you want to show off but, screw it...I'd probably just stick to the D minor pentatonic through both those chords. I would avoid the Eb note like the plague (I don't need to play no stinkin' roots, it's MY bass solo for chrissake).

For the rest of the tune I'd scuffle to do some combination of what everyone else said.