A Big Scale Lesson for Bassists (begginners to pros)

[varunkapahi]

i didn't understand anything about the tetra chord part
could some explain what "shift" is the op talking about? the shift in finger position or the shift in mode?

this thing:

A Tetrachord is a 4 note pattern with a shift, allow me to tab out the 4 tetrachords we will be using.

*Note* I am including how you shift with each of these, the numbers after "Shift = #" are which fingers you use, and "--->" means the actual shift. The number which comes after "--->" is what finger you shift to, and you continue the pattern from there. *Note*

[varunkapahi]

no one? please?

[notalent]

So the fingers are 1 through 4
1=pointer
2=middle
3=ring
4=pinky

See here:
http://driskillfan.tripod.com/sitebu...mber-guide.jpg

For the major shift, he says:

Major (Shift = 1 --> 1 3 4 3 1 ---> 1):

So start with the pointer, then SHIFT it up to the next note, then play the next two notes with 3 and 4 (ring and pinky) then go back down, and shift back down to where you started.

Major (Shift = 1 --> 1 3 4 3 1 ---> 1):
A string tab   3     5 7 8 7 5      3

[tomd03]

Originally Posted by notalent

So the fingers are 1 through 4
1=pointer
2=middle
3=ring
4=pinky

See here:
http://driskillfan.tripod.com/sitebu...mber-guide.jpg

For the major shift, he says:

Major (Shift = 1 --> 1 3 4 3 1 ---> 1):

So start with the pointer, then SHIFT it up to the next note, then play the next two notes with 3 and 4 (ring and pinky) then go back down, and shift back down to where you started.

Major (Shift = 1 --> 1 3 4 3 1 ---> 1):
A string tab   3     5 7 8 7 5      3

Thanks again Notalent haha,
I was about to tab out something very similar, but you beat me to the punch

[varunkapahi]

ok i get it now

[kynoch]

I have been trying to understand the Tetra Chord charts at the end...but I just don´t get it....can anyone tell me what and how...please!!!

Thanks for this lesson...its something I have just started getting into so it has been a GREAT help....just a little bit of clarification on the last part...THANKS

[notalent]

kynoch--did you see the pdf I uploaded. It has an example at the end that might help.

[EADG mx]

Not a bad beginner exercise, few things that stuck out:

Originally Posted by tomd03

Let's start simple:
A scale is simply a series of 7 notes which ascend/descend in either whole tones or semi tones to create different tonalities, and for the sake of this exercise, we are starting with the Ionian (Major) scale.

Not all scales have 7 notes, also some have intervals beyond a whole tone between steps (like the harmonic minor and its modes)

Originally Posted by tomd03

if we were in 8th position it would look like this:

G||----------------------|------------------5----||
D||----------------------|--5----7----9----(10)--||
A||-------5----7----8----|-----------------------||
E||--8-------------------|-----------------------||

That would be 5th position (index on the 5th fret)

Originally Posted by tomd03

A mode is when you start with a major scale, and then begin playing the scale on scale degrees other than the root.

You don't have to use a major scale, for example modes of the harmonic and melodic minor are also commonly used

Originally Posted by tomd03

IV. Lydian (Major Scale with a sharp 4th)

G||-----------------------|--------7----9----10----||
D||-------------7----9----|--10--------------------||
A||--8----10--------------|------------------------||
E||-----------------------|------------------------||

VII. Locrian (Natural Minor Scale with Minor 2nd and Minor 5th)

G||--------------------------|--------------14----16----||
D||--------------------14----|--15----17----------------||
A||--14----15----17----------|--------------------------||
E||--------------------------|--------------------------||

No such thing as a #4 or b5. Perfect intervals cannot be sharp or flat, they are augmented or diminished.

[tomd03]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

Not a bad beginner exercise, few things that stuck out:



Not all scales have 7 notes, also some have intervals beyond a whole tone between steps (like the harmonic minor and its modes)



That would be 5th position (index on the 5th fret)




You don't have to use a major scale, for example modes of the harmonic and melodic minor are also commonly used



No such thing as a #4 or b5. Perfect intervals cannot be sharp or flat, they are augmented or diminished.

To address the concerns:
That's very true that not all scales have 7 notes; whole tone scales, altered, etc. This was just for the purpose of this exercise.

My bad on the 5th position haha

For the initial understanding of modes, you definitely would not want to start with the harmonic and melodic minor modes; that is why this is not covered in this lesson.

The augmented and diminished of perfect intervals is very true, but that's in theory. In practice, I have seen many more charts with 'b5' written in versus 'half diminished.' When I first learned modes, I approached it like this:

Ionian
Mixolydian   (b7)
Dorian       (b3) b7
Aeolian       b3  (b6)  b7
Phrygian     (b2) b3 b6 b7
Locrian       b2 b3 (b5) b6 b7
Lydian        #4

Those all relate to the major scale, and what notes you would change to produce the mode. When a note is in brackets, that is the note which is changed since the previous mode.
It would be too cumbersome to write, for example

Locrian      b2 b3 (dim5) b6 b7

At least for the sake of explanation. Trust me, with every student I've had, as soon as you throw "diminished" or "augmented" or "double flat" or "play Db phrygian, and tell me the key signature" within the first couple lessons, they freak.


Thanks

[Oric]

it's stuff like this we need more of on Talkbass, not "wuts ur fav bass"

[EADG mx]

Just my nitpicking, just because it's not in the lesson doesn't mean it's not out there. I try to be as general as possible so the student doesn't freak out once you get to more advanced stuff.

Also good point on the b5 chords, but there is shorthand for aug and dim for the record (x and o).

[kynoch]

Originally Posted by notalent

kynoch--did you see the pdf I uploaded. It has an example at the end that might help.

Thanks man...that's what I needed.... a bit of clarification....I am also down with WE NEED MORE OF THIS on TB...I love it!!!!

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

No such thing as a #4 or b5. Perfect intervals cannot be sharp or flat, they are augmented or diminished.

To nitpick a little more, #4 and b5 are not the same thing as minor/major/aug/dim. I think you're kind of conflating two different things here. So there is no actual contradiction with the sharp 4th (though there was with the minor 5th).

A sharp or a flat is just an operation we perform on a specified note, it's not (as you know) one of the terms we use to characterize intervals. If you use the major scale as a starting point, it's not so wrong IMO to say that you can "sharp" or "flat" certain notes to derive different scales or intervals, even if you or I might prefer different terminology. (I think tom got into this.) For instance, it's perfectly understandable to say that when you "sharp" the upper tone of a perfect fifth (though of course we can think of many such cases where no actual sharp is involved), the resulting interval is an augmented fifth. When you say a sharp 4th, you're not saying that's the name of the interval; you're saying that the 4th in this scale/chord is one step higher than the 4th in a comparison scale/chord.

But as you note, fourths and fifths, as intervals, cannot be major or minor, only augmented or diminished, and this was the most important point.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

To nitpick a little more, #4 and b5 are not the same thing as minor/major/aug/dim. I think you're kind of conflating two different things here. So there is no actual contradiction with the sharp 4th (though there was with the minor 5th).

A sharp or a flat is just an operation we perform on a specified note, it's not (as you know) one of the terms we use to characterize intervals. If you use the major scale as a starting point, it's not so wrong IMO to say that you can "sharp" or "flat" certain notes to derive different scales or intervals, even if you or I might prefer different terminology. (I think tom got into this.) For instance, it's perfectly understandable to say that when you "sharp" the upper tone of a perfect fifth (though of course we can think of many such cases where no actual sharp is involved), the resulting interval is an augmented fifth. When you say a sharp 4th, you're not saying that's the name of the interval; you're saying that the 4th in this scale/chord is one step higher than the 4th in a comparison scale/chord.

But as you note, fourths and fifths, as intervals, cannot be major or minor, only augmented or diminished, and this was the most important point.

Fair point, I think there's an inconsistency there in the difference between naming intervals and chord/scale tones - but that's just the way it is in the real world so not much point in complaining about it. However I still think it's important that people know the difference.