blues pentatonic scale

[powderfinger]

Been filling in with a blues band lately, and need to know a few things about the blues scale.

I did my research first, before going in to jam.

The blues scale of course, is (in C or example)..
C D# F F# G Bb C
1 b3 4 b5 5 b7 8

Ive never played blues before, but this scale makes "sense" to me.. for example, playing a major scale would be out of place.. it would sound "too happy"... so these blue notes make "sense" to me.

Ok, well one of the band members told me most of the songs are using a blues pentatonic scale. He gave me the formula for the blues pentatonic scale to take home.

So the blues pentatonic is...
C D# F F# Bb C

I scratched my head on this one... where is the 5th I ask? Every song they played was basically 1 4 5. How do you use this blues pentatonic scale when the 5th is missing?

I know I am missing something here, bc this makes no sense.

[Phalex]

Relax.

The G can be played or not. Musicians prerogative. Pentatonic has five notes (hence the Penta part).

Use what you like, and if you get called out for the G tell em it's a transition note or something......

[slybass3000]

There is a Major Blues scale:

C-D-D#-E-G-A. It is actually just like in theory the scale of the relative minor A minor Blues. If you start that scale on A you've got the A minor blues scale.

This scale will fit on your C7 (I) perfectly. You can of course mismatch your minor blues scale and your mixolydian mode as well.
Here is a tip for soloing: Use the major Blues over all the C7 on your C blues, then use the C minor blues scale over all the others chords.

Hope this helps,

Sly

[powderfinger]

Originally Posted by Phalex

Relax.

The G can be played or not. Musicians prerogative. Pentatonic has five notes (hence the Penta part).

Use what you like, and if you get called out for the G tell em it's a transition note or something......

Thanks, make sense... but let me ask you this. If you are playing a blues in C... a standard 1 4 5. You will play in C... going from C to F to G... G is a root chord of the 1 4 5. I guess my questions is how is it NOT part of the pentatonic scale? Like, when the guitarist is playing the C chord, I can see not using the G as anything but a "passing tone", as you mentioned. But when the guitarist goes to the 5th chord aka G chord.... thats where the confusion comes in. How can the guitarist play a G chord, when using a pentatonic scale without the G!!!

[powderfinger]

Originally Posted by slybass3000

There is a Major Blues scale:

C-D-D#-E-G-A. It is actually just like in theory the scale of the relative minor A minor Blues. If you start that scale on A you've got the A minor blues scale.

This scale will fit on your C7 (I) perfectly. You can of course mismatch your minor blues scale and your mixolydian mode as well.
Here is a tip for soloing: Use the major Blues over all the C7 on your C blues, then use the C minor blues scale over all the others chords.

Hope this helps,

Sly

Whooaaaaa...... everywhere I look online has the blues scale listed as 1 b3 4 b5 5 b7 8.... but now your telling me that's a minor blues scale?????????????

[JTE]

Well, there's a distinction to be made between soloing and creating a functional bass line. Also, not to be too pendantic, but let's get the notes correct...

The Pentatonic Minor scale is 1, b3, 4, 5, b7 so in C it's C Eb F G Bb.
The typical "blues" scale adds the b5 to this so it's 1 b3 4 b5 5 b7; in C that's C Eb F Gb G Bb. Now I know that D# sounds the same as Eb, but calling it Eb clearly indicates that it's the b3, not a raised second...

OK, now moving on...

That scale the other band member gave you is (correcting the enharmonics from C D# F F# Bb C to C Eb F Gb Bb C is 1, b3, 4, b5 b7. It's the minor Blues scale without the fifth. Now for a functional bass line I'm going to want the fifth in there. And it's an important part of the blues guitar vocabulary too, so he's mostly right, but left one note out.

Also, typically the pattern moves as the chords change. So when you get to the V chord, you'll often be playing the patterns off the scale for the V, not staying in the I.

John

[nutdog]

In your example, the pentatonic would be C, Eb, F, G, Bb. I'm sure someone with musical knowledge will correct me soon.

An F# may used, but not really part of the pentatonic scale. Use your ears to see if it fits.

Depending on the nature of the blues song, the 3rd (E) and 6th (A) are also commonly used, if they fit. Ears are very useful in determining appropriate notes.

IMO, YMMV, etc...

[John Wentzien]

I'd worry more about simple walking lines and the transitions between chords than the blues scale....And "Feel" of course.

[powderfinger]

Wait...

So what the hell am I supposed to use on a standard blues song..

the Major Blues scale or Minor Blues scale... hell, the guys i play with cant tell me a thing... they know how to play but they cant communicate squat. And everything online is so ambigious.

[Phalex]

If the guitarist is playing a G, just play an E pentatonic thing and it's all cool and the gang.

Seriously, do what sounds best. Get all chromatic on the turnarounds, if it plays it's good.

The biggest thing with blues IME of course, is the groove. Keep it simple, stay off the lead instruments toes, and just lay back and groove.

[Phalex]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVR8lg1YLuc

Play the blues like that!

[powderfinger]

THanks for all the feedback.. now Im totally lost...

Anytime you google "blues scale"... the minor scale comes up...

So I guess there is a major blues scale, and a minor blues scale I need to learn.. whats with the big emphasis online w people using the minor scale!

[slybass3000]

Originally Posted by powderfinger

THanks for all the feedback.. now Im totally lost...

Anytime you google "blues scale"... the minor scale comes up...

So I guess there is a major blues scale, and a minor blues scale I need to learn.. whats with the big emphasis online w people using the minor scale!

That's because the major Blues scale is the best kept secret in music history...LOL.

But seriously, not a lot of players know that. They always refer to the minor scale based on the relative minor.

And look at the major blues scale; it is your famous blues walking bass right there with the b3 as a passing tone if needed.

And it is very easy to understand with the pentatonic scales. Like in your title you mentioned the blues pentatonic. The minor blues scale is the minor pentatonic with a b5 as a passing tone. The Major blues scale is the Major pentatonic with the b3 as a passing tone. That's it !!!

[bwv1013]

try starting off with these three scales:

major pentatonic: C D E G A

minor pentatonic: C Eb F G Bb

and the blues scale which has already been mentioned.

what you'll notice is that there is some overlap between the scales. if you combine those three scales you're only leaving out 2 notes from the chromatic scale (C#/Db and B), and even those 2 pitches can sound good in the right context. i tend to think of the blues scale as a very "flexible" scale. it can be altered/played around with/played incorrectly by mistake and still sound passable, as long as you find your way back to some good notes.

learn a few patterns and have fun experimenting with the "bad" notes.

[JTE]

OK, LISTEN to blues players. Don't get too fancy, but learn some basic riffs that you move as the chords move.

Things like "Tore Down" which is 1, 5, b7, octave. "Rock Me, Baby" is 1, octave, b7, 5, b7 octave. "What'd I Say"- 1 5 b7 octave. A basic boogie is 1 3 5 6 b7 6 5 3. There's the classic 1 2 slide up to 3 5. And octave 6 5 6.

Use those as starting points, varying the rhythm. Listen to classic blues artists (Howlin' Wolf, Muddy Waters, The King Family (Alber, B.B., and Freddie), Buddy Guy, Elmore James. Listen to more recent rock-based blues artists- The Fabulous Thunderbirds, especially the early albums with Keith Ferguson on bass- "Los Fabouloso Thunderbirds" and "What's The Word" are essential in my opinion- Paul Butterfield, Mike Bloomfield, Jimmie Lee Vaughn (SRV's older and IMO more interesting brother), etc.

THIS will get you into playing blues bass faster than scales. Then the scales will start making more sense for putting together cohesive bass lines, but start with the basics.

John

[Fergie Fulton]

It seems to me that you need to listen to blues songs. Your basic lack of theory is letting you down.
The thing about blues is you need to listen and work with what fits, not what others say will fit. The nuances of blues has may colours so you have to hear what other are playing to support it. If the other players cannot tell you, then how do you know they are even playing the songs correct?

In blues there are many little things that go unnoticed, missed, or just left out because they seem not to be relevant, you have to be aware that these things influence the final line you will play. Are you supporting chords, leading to another, coming up from under the chord, coming down to the chord, is the 7th implied or is it even there etc etc?
These things are what experienced Blues player hear in the music as a matter of course, the can identify these little nuances, and you get that by listening to who you are playing with, not what is on a record or in a book but who you are playing with.

[Febs]

Forget about scales for the time being, and learn the notes in each chord. So, for a I-IV-V in C, use the notes:

C7: C E G Bb
F7: F A C Eb
G7: G B D F

Once you're comfortable with the chord tones, you can worry about what notes you use to connect them. The 9th and 13th work well for this purpose, which gives you the following notes to use for each chord:

C7: C E G Bb D A
F7: F A C Eb G D
G7: G B D F A E

So, one possible line you could use is something like this:

C D E G | F A C Eb | C E F G | C Bb A G | F etc.

[John Wentzien]

Originally Posted by Febs

Forget about scales for the time being, and learn the notes in each chord. So, for a I-IV-V in C, use the notes:

C7: C E G Bb
F7: F A C Eb
G7: G B D F

Once you're comfortable with the chord tones, you can worry about what notes you use to connect them. The 9th and 13th work well for this purpose, which gives you the following notes to use for each chord:

C7: C E G Bb D A
F7: F A C Eb G D
G7: G B D F A E

So, one possible line you could use is something like this:

C D E G | F A C Eb | C E F G | C Bb A G | F etc.

I would add to this...learn it in the key of "A" first!

[Febs]

Originally Posted by John Wentzien

I would add to this...learn it in the key of "A" first!

Good point. It's worth working through in all 12 keys, but if you're going to play guitar-based blues, the keys you'll probably come across most often are A, E and G.

[John Wentzien]

When in doubt.. there is no shame in "riding-the-root" ALA Dusty Hill!
You probably will get no complaints doing this.

" the root...the whole root...and nothing-but the root" So help Me Dusty Hill.