Blues soloing

[Rebecca]

I'm a new player (~ 6 months) and learning mostly on my own or in short-term small group classes. In a couple of different contexts, I've been asked to solo while we're jamming on a blues progression. Three different strategies or styles or whatever have been suggested:

1) In class or all bass players, where we were exploring dorian mode, we were asked to solo using what I'd call arpeggio type patterns from the chord at hand, using appropriate rhythm, etc.

2) In a blues ensemble class, where I'm the only bass player among four acoustic guitars, I wasn't told much of anything to do, but when called on to solo, I did a "fancier" version of the walking bass I was already doing: more variety in rhythm and shape, more slides and percussive things. Afterwards, I asked the teacher to let me know what he wants, because I didn't really know what was appropriate, and he said I was doing the right thing.

3) On a subsequent day in the same class, when only one guitarist showed up, I did the same style of solo. This time the teacher asked me afterwards to do "this" and did a cool, but very "lead guitar" sounding solo. Don't know how to exactly explain what I mean, but imagine SRV or BB King, only on bass. I can kind of do that style(I play some guitar), only not very good yet, of course. I guess I'd call it "lick" based instead of pattern based, if that helps you understand what I'm trying to say.

I kind of think that part of the difference between (2) and (3) was due to the fact that in (3) it was just two of trading solos, so it helped if the bass got a little more into a guitar style. Probably all of these approaches have their place and I just have to figure out when and where. Anyway, I'll of course talk to the teacher about why/when/which style, but I'd like to hear what other people do for bass solos in blues. What do you guys do? I listen to a lot of blues, but the bands I listen to don't tend to have much in the way of bass solos, so I'd also be interested in suggestions of people to listen to. Thanks!

[bassandbeyond]

Not sure how much theory you know after 6 months of playing, but are you aware of the difference between major pentatonic and minor pentatonic scales? Here they are:

G Major Pentatonic
G-A-B-D-E-G

G Minor Pentatonic
G-Bb-C-D-F-G

As a VERY ROUGH rule of thumb, the major pentatonic often works well for walking bass lines in the blues, and the minor pentatonic is good for getting that very bluesy, guitaristic solo kind of sound you're talking about. If you can sound like SRV or BB when soloing, that would be great!

BTW, here is a recent video of a solo I took on a more complex, jazz blues progression. There's a lot more going on here than pentatonics, but for a simple beginning blues tune, the pentatonics should get you through just fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbYFnt--EFg

[Rebecca]

Originally Posted by bassandbeyond

As a VERY ROUGH rule of thumb, the major pentatonic often works well for walking bass lines in the blues, and the minor pentatonic is good for getting that very bluesy, guitaristic solo kind of sound you're talking about. If you can sound like SRV or BB when soloing, that would be great!

If I could sound like them, that would be great, but not very likely to happen I just meant I was trying to shoot for that type of "lead" playing.

Thanks for the video link and the tip about the pentatonics - I am familiar with them, and this helps clarify for me when to use which.

[Danny Fox]

Try using some major, minor and dominant 7th arpeggios....

cmaj7 cmin7 c7
-----------4--------------------3-----------------3--------
-----2--5----5--2------------5----5----------2-5----5-2---
--3----------------3----3--6--------6-3---3-------------3-
-----------------------------------------------------------

http://www.myspace.com/bassmandannyfox

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes notice he is not just running the scale, there are pauses, duplications, octave movement, the things that take it away from being just a scale exercise and move it into music - melodic phrases.

That takes practice.

BTW - Nice! The lead guitar --- where is the rest of the neck? Never seen one like this before.

[Rebecca]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Yes notice he is not just running the scale, there are pauses, duplications, octave movement, the things that take it away from being just a scale exercise and move it into music - melodic phrases.

Yes, I did notice and I appreciate the example. That's what I'm wondering about mostly, more than what notes to play or what scales to draw from. I was looking at it as a "bass-line oriented vs. lick-oriented" question, but it's really wider than that - more, what makes a melody a melody. I'm starting to think, what I really need is to listen to lots of examples, so would love it if people have things to suggest in that regard.

[bassandbeyond]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

BTW - Nice! The lead guitar --- where is the rest of the neck? Never seen one like this before.

Thanks very much. That's Jody Fisher playing his Klein guitar. It's basically a Steinberger type headless guitar, with an unusual body style. Look up Jody on Youtube, he's a great player.

[bassandbeyond]

Originally Posted by Rebecca

I was looking at it as a "bass-line oriented vs. lick-oriented" question, but it's really wider than that - more, what makes a melody a melody. I'm starting to think, what I really need is to listen to lots of examples, so would love it if people have things to suggest in that regard.

Music is music, I think, regardless of the instrument. So if you want to get good at soloing, I would recommend copying (i.e. stealing! ) licks from the best soloists, most of whom don't happen to be bass players. You've already mentioned a couple of great ones: SRV and BB King. Other suggestions: Freddie King, Robben Ford, and Albert Collins for blues. Paul Desmond, George Benson, and Bud Powell for jazz.....gosh, the list is endless....

[Joe Gress]

Learn some cream songs and play along with them. You'll really start to notice that Jack doesn't quite stay on the same bassline. Eric and Jack really just played all around each other and soloed together.

[Kevin.Kevin]

Originally Posted by bassandbeyond

BTW, here is a recent video of a solo I took on a more complex, jazz blues progression. There's a lot more going on here than pentatonics, but for a simple beginning blues tune, the pentatonics should get you through just fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbYFnt--EFg

Nice man. There were a couple licks in there that im going to have to lift. Around 0:35 you hit a real nice one. same with that vibrato minor 3rds diminished lick it sounded like. Looks like I know what im doing this morning. Any chance there's a vid of the guitar solo too?

As for the matter at hand. THe minor pentatonic will make that bluesy sound. as will the Blues scale. Cop some licks, and show them guitar players who's boss. But a bass isnt ment to sound the same. Different traditions going back a long time. That's why its called a bass. Listen to some bass players rip on a blues and you get the idea.

[MalcolmAmos]

We've moved into melody - using the notes of the scale instead of relying on the scale order or pattern for our melody.

This may help; http://books.google.com/books?id=Hty...age&q=&f=false
Gets a little deep but points out what is happening in the following video.

Hitch hiking on the above notice how the right hand handles the melody - specifically the leap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0iZ1j00wSU
Copy the hints that pop up on the video screen. I think the breathing spaces add the most.

Originally Posted by bassandbeyond

Music is music, I think, regardless of the instrument.

Use as much or as little as you think best...............

[Jim Nazium]

Originally Posted by Rebecca

1) arpeggio type patterns

2) a "fancier" version of the walking bass I was already doing

3) a cool, but very "lead guitar" sounding solo

I think one of the important ways that (3) is different from (1) and (2) is the emphasis on notes other than the root. When guitarists (or horn or harmonica players) solo, they're often emphasizing the 3rd, 7th, and tension notes of the chord. They don't emphasize the root & 5th, because you (the bass player) are playing those notes underneath them.

When it's your turn to solo, no one is playing a bass line underneath you, so it can be cool to play a busy walking line and emphasize the chord tones. I've heard Todd Coolman, Ray Brown, and other jazz players do this and sound great. Or, you can play something more like a guitarist or horn player would play. It's up to you; whatever you're in the mood for. If you're playing with more than one guitarist, I think the "walking solo" can offer a nice contrast. The audience has already heard two people playing guitar licks; give them something different.

Check out Roscoe Beck's playing with Robben Ford by the way, he does a lot of very cool stuff.

Good luck and have fun!

[bassandbeyond]

Originally Posted by Kevin.Kevin

Nice man. There were a couple licks in there that im going to have to lift. Around 0:35 you hit a real nice one. same with that vibrato minor 3rds diminished lick it sounded like. Looks like I know what im doing this morning. Any chance there's a vid of the guitar solo too?

Thank you, I'm flattered! Unfortunately, due to shaky camerawork and muffled sound, the bass solo was all that I could salvage from that particular performance. I'm putting up new vids all the time, though. And, since it's on topic, I'll make one more shameless plug for the free lessons on my website. I've recently posted a couple of lessons on playing the blues and use of pentatonics:

dougross.net

[ThumbyAche]

Originally Posted by Kevin.Kevin

Nice man. There were a couple licks in there that im going to have to lift. Around 0:35 you hit a real nice one. same with that vibrato minor 3rds diminished lick it sounded like. Looks like I know what im doing this morning. Any chance there's a vid of the guitar solo too?

As for the matter at hand. THe minor pentatonic will make that bluesy sound. as will the Blues scale. Cop some licks, and show them guitar players who's boss. But a bass isnt ment to sound the same. Different traditions going back a long time. That's why its called a bass. Listen to some bass players rip on a blues and you get the idea.

very cool