Brand new to bass playing, looking for advice

[BTF_PTM]

Hi guys. I've been playing bass for a total of maybe 30 hours. I've been picking up little bits of knowledge about scales and I can fumble my way through simple tablature and I've learned a couple of the core blues progressions. Here's my big question:

How do I take what I'm learning about scales and basic progressions and learning to copy a song and turn it into the ability to improvise? I can improvise my tail off behind a set of drums, but it seems so much more complicated when a limited set of notes are involved that will fit. I understand there's no one answer to this, but I'm hoping to get some feedback as to how some of you began learning to take notes you learned to copy and made them into notes you learned how to choose. Any advice on specific methods of practice, books, experience, just about anything will help.

And by the way, I'm already finding some really cool stickies here on the forum that I know will help. I think I'm gonna like it here =)

[chaosMK]

It's a good idea to find a teacher/coach/friend who can help you get off the ground.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by BTF_PTM

Hi guys. I've been playing bass for a total of maybe 30 hours. ..... Here's my big question:
How do I take what I'm learning about scales and basic progressions and learning to copy a song and turn it into the ability to improvise? I can improvise my tail off behind a set of drums, but it seems so much more complicated when a limited set of notes are involved that will fit.

You asked about how do you use those scales and basic progressions. Understand what I am saying is an overview of how scales and progressions are used. The songs melody is played using scale notes, i.e. normally notes from one scale. {Why just one? It's a range thing I like to sing in the key of D, can I sing in other keys, yes, but I prefer D as I can handle all the high notes as well as all the low notes in the range of D. Someone decides what key/scale this song will be played in - this time - and you adjust and follow along.} Progressions are the chords (the harmony) - made from that scales' notes. So yes it is specific notes and chords. Right at first helps to stay in scale/key, later you can play out, but when you go out you should know you are out and know how to get back in, i.e. it is NOT random notes. Lets take scales first.

Every instrument, no matter what it is, you gotta do your scales. Why? To learn where the notes are on your fretboard for one thing. To learn how to recognize the good notes from the bad notes, i.e. know when you hit a note that does not belong to the scale you are playing. Get your ear trained to how a major scale sounds. Running your scales you will find that unless you mute unused strings you get a sustain mess - so the way you pluck your strings has to be learned. This will go into detail http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bas...ique/plucking/

I presume you have access to a generic major scale pattern and know how to use that pattern to play the G major scale, A major scale, C major scale, etc. If not ask. Running your scales gets your ear and fingers working together. This will go into more detail; http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-scales/

Chord progressions - As a newbie to bass concentrate on playing generic riffs with the chord progressions. How? Say the song has a chord progression of G, C, D7. You need to know when the song is relying upon a G chord and when it changes to the C chord, etc. That will take some time for your ear to learn that, so play from fake chord sheet music right at first. In case you do not know about fake chord here is what that is; http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/ww...dColdHeart.cpm

Again right at first play a Root nothing - when the song is using the G chord you play a G note laying down a steady beat of G notes till the song moves to the C chord. Then you change and start laying down a steady beat of C notes, etc. Check this out; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUK5p...eature=related

When Root nothing gets boring then start playing R-5 or my favorite R-3-5-3. For more details; http://www.studybass.com/lessons/common-bass-patterns/

OK that's an overview of what you do with scales and progressions. For how you do all that yes, go get a teacher - or go here; http://www.studybass.com/ start at the beginning and work you way through the lessons and examples. You gotta learn how to hold the beast, which fingers to use, etc. Start at the beginning.

Ask specific questions here, someone will help.

Good luck.

[fearceol]

All great advice so far, but dont forget about your technique. Learn good technique now and you will avoid developing bad habits, that later on you might have to unlearn. Bad technique can lead to hand and wrist problems later on. Search You Tube for left and right hand technique for bass.

Good luck with it.

[dave64o]

Originally Posted by chaosMK

It's a good idea to find a teacher/coach/friend who can help you get off the ground.

I couldn't agree more. It's certainly possible to do it on your own, but with a good instructor you'll progress a lot farther a lot faster, you'll break bad habits early, you'll be forced to think differently than you usually do, you'll be forced to try things you wouldn't normally do, and you'll learn the language musicians speak. If nothing else, you'll at least have the pressure of making sure you get through your assignment because your instructor is expecting you to for your next lesson.

The OP also mentioned the phrase "more complicated when a limited set of notes will fit". Do NOT let yourself fall into the trap set by players who say with pride that they know nothing about theory because they'd rather be free to be creative than be stifled by a set of "arbitrary rules". That's a bunch of bull poop. What they're really telling you is that they're afraid to put in the effort to learn. Don't be one of them. I'm amazed at how much I've learned in the last year that I've been taking lessons compared to the previous eight years of learning and playing on my own.

[Snarf]

Hey, this guy is pretty good!

www.myspace.com/globalbassinstruction

Start off with the pentatonic and make up rock and blues riffs

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by afromoose

Start off with the pentatonic and make up rock and blues riffs

If I could steel the post for some personal help. Making up the riffs is working, however, I would really like some hints on how you use your pentatonic scales.

I finally got pentatonics going on the last gig we did. It dawned on me that if the song is in G a G major pentatonic will work over the entire song - so I relaxed and it all fell into place. Got my first; "Atta boy".

You seem to have been using pentatonics for quite some time now. Some hints on:
What do you look for that indicates that this song can take pentatonics. I'm still hung up on there being space enough for pentatonics, i.e. some time I feel a R-5 is best, sometime I feel a R-R-3-3-5-5-6-5 is best, I'm not real sure when pentatonics are the best choice. I know that will come the more I use them. I know it's a feel thing and hard to explain here, however, a few words on this will sure help.

Do you play the key pentatonic over the entire song - or do you play the chord's pentatonic, i.e. do you use the pentatonic like a bass riff and change the pentatonic scale when the chords change?

Are you playing the pentatonic in note order - R-2-3-5-6 -as we do a bass riff, or are you helping yourself to melodic phrases taken from those notes?

Any hints on what you've learned about using pentatonics will be a great help.

Thanks

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

What do you look for that indicates that this song can take pentatonics. I'm still hung up on there being space enough for pentatonics ...I'm not real sure when pentatonics are the best choice.

Pentatonics can carry you you a long way if you are in the key of the song...for example if the piece is in C major you can most likely get away with improvising in C maj pentatonic throughout, without hitting any notes that sound bad against the chords.. which can be fun and help you gain confidence in your listening and responding to the music.

But, the very common IV chord (F major in C) and the less common vii chord (B dim in C) have root notes outside of the pent scale of the key.

The potential flaw here is that you will be thinking only of the Pent scale and not about the harmony / chord progressions. Outlining the chord progression should be the primary concern of your note choices.

Do you play the key pentatonic over the entire song - or do you play the chord's pentatonic, i.e. do you use the pentatonic like a bass riff and change the pentatonic scale when the chords change?

As mentioned, you can do both but the latter is preferred, since chords will come up whose notes are outside the pent of the key.

Are you playing the pentatonic in note order - R-2-3-5-6 -as we do a bass riff, or are you helping yourself to melodic phrases taken from those notes?

any order is fine, and emphasizing the root of the chord is always desirable.

The way I generally think about its I am connecting root notes (or other chord tones) of the chords, and using the pent scale to find the "in between" notes.

The real answer to the question will be determined by the style of the music you are playing. I's suggest learning some bass lines you like, comparing them to the chords of the tune, and seeing where the pent scales show up.

[pandaman37]

http://playbassnow.com/

this guy is a genius, i think he can help you loads more than i can haha. good luck.

[MalcolmAmos]

Mambo4 - Thanks for your post. This solidifies what I'm trying to do with pentatonic scales. Right now with the band I'm playing with I'm "Jamming on the fly" songs that I have not had the chance to see sheet music on. Instead of assuming a I IV V and using a Root nothing or R-5 and hoping I can pick up the chord change -- I think there is a place for the key pentatonic in situations like this. As I get to know the songs better, yes I agree riffs over the chord changes is preferred.

Thanks, needed confirmation from a bass player that this can be done.

[BTF_PTM]

Thanks for the feedback, guys! This studybass.com site is amazing. I've had to quit practicing for tonight as my fingers are getting clumsy, but I can't wait to get back to it tomorrow.

[fender_funk_man]

listen to a lot of music. Find music that you dig the rhythm section specifically. Listen to the drummers and how they interact with the bassist. I spend at least half of my designated practice time just listening to music.

[BTF_PTM]

Originally Posted by fender_funk_man

listen to a lot of music. Find music that you dig the rhythm section specifically. Listen to the drummers and how they interact with the bassist. I spend at least half of my designated practice time just listening to music.

I find myself listening for the bass lines of songs I like automatically lately. Being a drummer, I naturally tune in to the rhythm section of any music I hear, and now I find myself trying to catch the bass line.

[Stumbo]

Here are some links you may want to take a look at:
~Getting creative
Where does creativity come from?

Creating bass lines
Target Approach
Walking bass line examples
Ed Friedland on walking bass lines

For a jam
Jammin'

Playing scales

Playing behind/ahead of the beat
"Feel"
Playing "in the pocket"

[Suzo]

Thanks everyone for posting all this advice- is going to help me greatly!

[tonebrulee]

Hi Suzo - Welcome!

As folks have pointed out, there is a huge amount of information available on the web. My take as a new bass player is this is both a good and bad thing. The main downside I've felt is the choices are left up to you instead of a single excellent source bringing their digested wisdom to you in a concise way - i.e. what a good teacher would do for you. FWIW, after a lot of searching I found a book I really like: FOUNDATION EXERCISES FOR BASS by Chuck Sher. It's the best source I've found (I'm sure there are others) where a master teacher introduces ideas and methods to you - the beginner - in a way that integrates music, theory and practice at each step. The effect for me has been that I feel like I am learning to be a complete musician, rather than learning one specific topic at a time which can feel abstract or arbitrary without all the experience and musical understanding that the author already has. I think being able to do this is what separates good teachers from folks who may be good musicians but don't necessarily have the ability to bring their understanding to others - very different skills. Highly recommended. And good luck!

[wolf7883]

The key to my progress over the years has been Listening to my music collection and hearing how different bassists interact with their band. Les Claypool and Flea and all of the Great names you hear have totally different ways of grooving with the music. Just listen all the time and take little bits from your favorite players to form your own "Voltron of Style" This will make you a more versatile player.

The more well-rounded your record collection-the more well rounded you will be as a musician