Breaking a Terrible Habit

[Atticus]

When I first started playing bass, I took some lessons from a guitar player who taught in the shop for about a year. I didn't learn a whole lot of theory, but it created one bad habit that I'm still trying to break. I learned from tab, and now I'm having trouble shaking that. I can't stop thinking in terms of fret numbers and relative position on a scale instead of notes. I can read music, but it takes an age to translate that into notes on the neck. It's pretty frustrating because I really want to make progress, but I'm being forced to unlearn what I've done before, and I can't stop picking up my bass and playing some riffs in the numbers mindset.

Does anybody have any advice as to how I might fix this problem? Short of taking lessons with an actual bass player. I'm not opposed to it; in fact, I'd love to take some lessons from a good jazz player, but right now my schedule is already extremely busy, and I don't really know where to find anybody giving good lessons right now anyway.

[slaps76]

You could start by taking some songs you like to play, and write down the key the parts are in...for example, if an intro is 5-5-5-5-5-5- on your E string, write that down as "A."

Do that to a bunch of songs you know, and just look at the written chords as you play, so you start realizing what key you're playing in, vs. just the fret numbers.

Other than that, obviously practice learning the fret board, just do chromatic excercises while saying the note outloud. You can get pictures of the fretboard with the notes attached online, print one out.

[fourstringburn]

Well the first you thing you did right is realize is that tab isn't music. It is a system that shortcuts real music and leads to musical incompetence. We can teach monkeys how to connect the dots and basically that is what you are using tab.

Best advice is keep thinking the frets as notes and over time you will overcome your problem. Also I would recommend practicing reading scales and chords out of music books in between all the fun stuff you like playing and practicing. The more you read and practice, the more musically coherent you will become. So immerse yourself as much as possible.

Time, patience,and practice is what it takes and if possible, having a good music teacher that teaches music not licks and tab. A real teacher will keep you on track at your own level and abilities so you can steadily progress from there. We all have different learning speeds so don't be impatient.

Something to consider. Have you ever tried learning to speak another language? It is tough isn't it? For me, when I try to speak another language, I always have to translate in English what I'm saying and re-translate what I'm hearing. I believe this is because I haven't really immersed myself in that language but only learned some phrases and words. As for those books and tapes that say you can learn another language in a few weeks? yeah right!

Most of my family are very fluent in 2 languages. Why? because they were immersed in it daily when they were younger and used both languages everyday. I would love to be able speak another language fluently but I have yet taken the time or use patience to learn it correctly so I'm limited to what words and phrases I do know. Do you see the point I'm making here?

Music is a language. To a tab reader looking at a music score, to them it is the equivalent of reading a Chinese newspaper ( if you don't know the Chinese language that is ) But to you as music reader, even on a basic level, can read it and interpret it.

Good luck and keep on reading and playing and don't let this minor stumbling block stop you. You are on the right track!

[HaVIC5]

Read through these.

http://imslp.org/wiki/Suites_for_Vio...n_Sebastian%29

It'll be the most aggravating experience you'll ever have with music. But I can guarantee beyond a shadow of a doubt you will know the correlation between the notes on the page and your bass absolutely cold. Be honest with yourself. Are you willing to put in the effort?

[fourstringburn]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

Read through these.

http://imslp.org/wiki/Suites_for_Vio...n_Sebastian%29

It'll be the most aggravating experience you'll ever have with music. But I can guarantee beyond a shadow of a doubt you will know the correlation between the notes on the page and your bass absolutely cold. Be honest with yourself. Are you willing to put in the effort?

Your link seems to be a dead one . I can't seem to get a connection on it. However, I agree a lot of music by Bach is very challenging enough to make you want to quit and throw your bass thru the wall. But it is also adaptable to bass since most of it is written in 4 octaves. Look what Jaco did with Bach's chromatic fantasy.

This might be too advanced for a beginner though.

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by fourstringburn

Your link seems to be a dead one . I can't seem to get a connection on it. However, I agree a lot of music by Bach is very challenging enough to make you want to quit and throw your bass thru the wall. But it is also adaptable to bass since most of it is written in 2 octaves. Look what Jaco did with Bach's chromatic fantasy.

This might be too advanced for a beginner though.

If you ever take a look at the original music for that, Jaco didn't even come close to adapting the whole original for bass. First of all, its written over the span of a lot more than the range of the bass (he did a lot of octave replacement stuff with his transcription), and it's significantly longer and more complex than the portion he transcribed. As crazy as his version is, you should check out it done in its original form.

Yeah, the IMSLP seems to be down right now, but I'd still strongly recommend you slog your way through the suites. It might be too advanced for a beginner in terms of being able to perform them. But definitely not to read through the notes.

[Beginner Bass]

Try picking up Hal-Leonard's "Essential Elements for Double Bass." You can transfer it to electric. It's how I learned to read, as it was required for school orchestra 2 years ago.

[fourstringburn]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

If you ever take a look at the original music for that, Jaco didn't even come close to adapting the whole original for bass. First of all, its written over the span of a lot more than the range of the bass (he did a lot of octave replacement stuff with his transcription), and it's significantly longer and more complex than the portion he transcribed. As crazy as his version is, you should check out it done in its original form.

Yeah, the IMSLP seems to be down right now, but I'd still strongly recommend you slog your way through the suites. It might be too advanced for a beginner in terms of being able to perform them. But definitely not to read through the notes.

Well I think Jaco did a very good job, but yes it his interpretation on a complex piece. I have the original score and it is adaptable to bass ( and challenging to do on bass or any other instrument for that matter).

Here is a you -tube link of a classical guitarist playing it. I think he did a wonderful job . SEE what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG1ny...eature=related

[fourstringburn]

If you want to see a flawless performance of this piece , watch a great pianist do it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGO0w...eature=related

[Neon Scribe]

Why make it a religious argument? Tabs that you find on the Internet are mostly junk. All they tell you is which frets and which strings to play in what order. They usually don't include rhythm indications. They are just a minor, often incorrect, aid to learning by ear. Tabs in books are a supplement to standard notation. They give guidance on fingering. Sometimes they are misleading, too, but mostly useful.

There are a number of skills you will probably need as a bass player, especially if you are going to become a professional musician. One is learning a part by ear. Another is learning a part from standard notation, working out the fingering. A more advanced skill is sight reading from standard notation on the fly. You will also need to be able to create bass lines from chord charts. You will want to be able to watch and listen to a guitar player and know the chords so you can create a bass line on the fly. You might even need to read piano scores and figure out bass lines by transposing left hand parts up or down an octave. You'll probably need to read some parts on the treble clef and transpose into other keys. Reading tablature is not a skill you need as a professional. Some might call it a crutch, I prefer to think of it as a learning aid.

Go back to the tabs you have used that also have standard notation. Look at the chord markings. How do the bass notes relate to the chords? Roots, fifths, thirds, sixths, sevenths? Now look at the standard notation and get familiar with those patterns. What about rhythms? Syncopated eights, sixteenths? What do they look like in standard notation? Next time you see an alternating pattern of eighth rests and eighth notes you'll remember that you play those on the upbeats. Learning notation doesn't mean you have to start from scratch and forget everything you already know.

[tZer]

Originally Posted by Atticus

When I first started playing bass, I took some lessons from a guitar player who taught in the shop for about a year. I didn't learn a whole lot of theory, but it created one bad habit that I'm still trying to break. I learned from tab, and now I'm having trouble shaking that. I can't stop thinking in terms of fret numbers and relative position on a scale instead of notes. I can read music, but it takes an age to translate that into notes on the neck. It's pretty frustrating because I really want to make progress, but I'm being forced to unlearn what I've done before, and I can't stop picking up my bass and playing some riffs in the numbers mindset.

Does anybody have any advice as to how I might fix this problem? Short of taking lessons with an actual bass player. I'm not opposed to it; in fact, I'd love to take some lessons from a good jazz player, but right now my schedule is already extremely busy, and I don't really know where to find anybody giving good lessons right now anyway.

Commit to the solution and don't look for short-cuts.

The best path to solving your problem is to define it correctly. You do not need to break a 'tabs' habit - you do need to learn to read music. They are unrelated and it's not a see-saw where you either do one or the other. Currently you know how to read a tab. Learning to read music won't break your tab habit - it will provide you the ability to read music.

Get a teacher. Bad habits come mostly from bad or not instruction. While you may be able to teach yourself to read music, there's no substitute for a good teacher. Get a teacher, tell them that you want to learn to read music and do what they tell you.

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by Atticus

I can't stop thinking in terms of fret numbers and relative position on a scale instead of notes. I can read music, but it takes an age to translate that into notes on the neck.

I am not a fluent sight reader, but i'm comfortable with notation while TAB just confuses me.

But I think in relative scale position (based on the key sig) when I read, not note names.

In other words, reading is NOT this:
1.) see the dot on a line/space
2.) Identify the Note name
3.) find the note the neck
4.) play the note
5.) hear the note

It's more like this :
1.) see the dot on a line/space
2.) Identify the interval relative to the previous note
3.) find the interval on the neck
4.) play the note
5.) hear the note

BUT THAT'S JUST PITCH!
the rhythm is the hard part IMHO

and The goal of course is:
1.) see phrase composed of dots on a line/space
2.) hear the phrase
3.) play the phrase

[tZer]

Originally Posted by mambo4

I am not a fluent sight reader, but i'm comfortable with notation while TAB just confuses me.

But I think in relative scale position (based on the key sig) when I read, not note names.

In other words, reading is NOT this:
1.) see the dot on a line/space
2.) Identify the Note name
3.) find the note the neck
4.) play the note
5.) hear the note

It's more like this :
1.) see the dot on a line/space
2.) Identify the interval relative to the previous note
3.) find the interval on the neck
4.) play the note
5.) hear the note

BUT THAT'S JUST PITCH!
the rhythm is the hard part IMHO

and The goal of course is:
1.) see phrase composed of dots on a line/space
2.) hear the phrase
3.) play the phrase

+1, but with an alternate point of view.

My experience with music started on piano and went through violin, trombone, upright then electric bass. So using your description method, for me it's like so:

1) See dot on line/space
2) Both identify note name AND it's intervallic relationship to the piece of music at hand
3) Play the note...

Once you learn to read music and do it for a while, it's hard not to simultaneously understand both the note name and it's relative position based on the line of music, key, chord, etc...

But again +1 in that it's not a requirement to consciously identify the note by name when reading and playing, but if you happen to have learned how to process sheet music in that fashion, it's very hard not to.

[perutxo]

Try singing the notes while you play. Very good exercise.
Play a song you know and sing A, D F F.......

[INTP]

Your situation is an example of why when I know anyone is starting a musical instrument, I always encourage them to learn music as they go. Otherwise, the problem I've seen is that people become able to play more complex material, but they cannot read at anywhere near the same level. So it becomes frustrating (boring) to go back and practice simple parts while your reading catches up with your technical ability.

My suggestion to remedy this starts with acknowledging that you're going to be reading parts that are easier to play than you are capable. You already have the desire, and I think the desire plus this acknowledgement is a necessary starting point. Set aside a small amount of your practice time to work just on reading. In the beginning, it will require more discipline, but as you improve, you'll start to see more benefit and less frustration. For the rest of your practice session, keep doing what you're doing (but stay away from TAB if you can).

I look at it as an example of asynchronous learning, where we are better at some things than others. All of us have this to some degree. and the overall effect will vary for each of us. But I think that eventually, the things that we are less developed on start to affect us overall. To avoid stagnating, we're going to have to go back and give attention to those things that we've either neglected or come less naturally to us.

The bottom line is I think the biggest challenge is often a mental hurdle. But if you're willing to do some challenging work for a relatively brief period, I think you'll end up with a lifetime of benefit.

Good Luck!

[Robert Spencer]

Hopefully you will find this to be both interesting and pertinent to your situation. Can`t say enough good things about studybass.com
http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bas...eginners-make/
Take care. Bob

[dieselbass]

I'm with tZer. I learned to read ahead a couple of bars to see what's coming next. Bass is entertaining as there can be several spots to play the same note with the same pitch but different "sound" Chuck Rainey has a bass method book that has some tab to show note relations, but then goes into exercises with no tab so you get used to reading. It's not too bad until you have to start counting ledger lines. I played bass trombone and a high G was pushing. I'd like to play in a pit orchestra for musicals but am not ready yet as that is tough stuff.

[tZer]

Originally Posted by dieselbass

I'm with tZer. I learned to read ahead a couple of bars to see what's coming next. Bass is entertaining as there can be several spots to play the same note with the same pitch but different "sound" Chuck Rainey has a bass method book that has some tab to show note relations, but then goes into exercises with no tab so you get used to reading. It's not too bad until you have to start counting ledger lines. I played bass trombone and a high G was pushing. I'd like to play in a pit orchestra for musicals but am not ready yet as that is tough stuff.

+1 on the lines!

[Cameron Ward]

The thing that helped my reading the most was writing. If your ability to write out music improves, your reading will automatically improve.