Building Walking Bass Lines

[El Bajo]

Hi all

I'm struggling a little on Ed Friedlands BWBL. I'm just about to start the 2 chapter but I'm wondering if I'm on thr right track at the point I've reached. I've been transposig the cd which is fine and writing the bass lines out in standard notation. I've also done the analysis that goes with it but I feel I'm missing something. I can't seem to be able to think about the approach notes that lead in to the beat 1 and 3 notes (Root and Fith). Should I be able to do this at this stage? How do musicians internalize this stuff and are able to come up with these lines at speed!!!! I just end up reading the standard notation without thinking about it.

It's one of the reason i bough th the book because I admore the way jazz improv players seem to know whats coming next and I thought the book would help me to do this. I bought the book thinking it would be an easy book and could go on to study his other jazz books! But it isnt!

[kr0n]

I think the commonly used approach notes are chord tones and chromatic approach notes. Meaning using the scale/chord notes or notes half-step away from the target note. I'm not much of a jazzer and my theory knowledge is very limited. I think these are the basic types. I'd assume the whole motion can be driven with variety of notes, such as the octave or rests. Keeping it simple.

[WhiteKnuckles]

I'd say you're on the right track. Yet, it's a new style for you to play, and like with any new style, it'll take a while to get the nuances.

I worked a bit with walking lines for a couple months, but never became very proficient at 'em as they're not something I'll use in my day to day to day playing.

Two tips my instructor gave me that really help build better lines was to always think about the chord change and where you will be when it happens...does the last note in the current measure fit within the next chord. This really helped me to get a 'flow' going and kept me from making odd jumps from chord to chord. The other was how to use passing tones to help in this. If the chord change is going up, bring the passing tone from below and vice versa. Granted, you want to change this up occasionally to give it life, but it works great as a general rule.

As I said, I never really mastered it, but listening to my instructor build some mean lines applying these tips really opened my eyes.

[fearceol]

I'm working my way through the book also. As you can see from the link below, I am/was having some difficulty also. I'd say you are on the right track. Before I start a particular track on the cd, I listen a few times to it with the full band, before I even pick up the bass. Sometimes, we are concentrating on the theory (roots 5ths dominants ect), so much, that we forget to stop and listen to how and where they fit in. I'm beginning to to get the feel of things at this stage. My advice is, stick with it. The penny will soon drop.


Walking bass lines(Dominant Approach). Help !!

[JTE]

You have to think ahead. Instead of thinking about what chord I'm playing now, think about what's coming up next. When you're on the Dmin7, you have to planning that G7, not considering the D F A C notes.

The more you do it, the more it becomes natural and works for you. But you gotta plug in the brain AND the ears for it to flow naturally. Most of the time on stage, you're NOT thinking this stuff. But that's because you've spent a lot of time off stage working it out, listening to yourself and to other bassists.

jte

[El Bajo]

Thanks guys, all good advice. Fearceol, I had the same problem with page 23 aswell!!! I'm on the page before the Chapter 2, so basically the lines that put all the theory from chapter 1 together.

I think part of the problem is me, as JTE said I have to plug both brain and ears in, after a long day at work picking up this book is like school homework. I need to be in the right thinking mode for it, and its to easy to close the book, stop the CD and just noodle. Its going to be a slow progression but I know it will be worth it.

[Asher S]

I'm working on this skill as well with my teacher. As WhiteKnuckles wrote above, "like with any new style, it'll take a while to get the nuances". I think that's an understatement.

Before you can get to the point where flowing, melodic, supportive lines emanate from your fingertips, you (and I...) will need many hundreds of hours studying and practicing lines over simple blues progressions, and progressively more challenging progressions. By "studying" I mean:

1. Listening to the great classics (Sam Jones, Ron Carter, Ray Brown to name nut a few): these musicians make it sound so much easier than it is!
2. Transcribing those lines that really resonate with you
3. Writing out your own lines, no matter how long it takes
4. Playing along with recordings
5. Practicing with other musicians

I think if you do this under the guidance of a good teacher, you will get there. But be patient: walking lines are a subtle, often under-appreciated art form that sound a lot easier than they are.

[Rudreax]

I'm assuming that you already listen to lots and lots of jazz to really want to do what those bassists do. If you are already, listen to more. If you aren't start now.

One thing I know you should try is transcribing your favorite basslines and see how the advice in your book matches with what those bassists have played.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by El Bajo

Thanks guys, all good advice. Fearceol, I had the same problem with page 23 aswell!!! I'm on the page before the Chapter 2, so basically the lines that put all the theory from chapter 1 together.

I think part of the problem is me, as JTE said I have to plug both brain and ears in, after a long day at work picking up this book is like school homework. I need to be in the right thinking mode for it, and its to easy to close the book, stop the CD and just noodle. Its going to be a slow progression but I know it will be worth it.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one having a few problems. Sometimes it's easier said than done, but try not to treat it as a "chore". Even half an hour of good concentration is good. If I find that the oul' brain is becoming a bit saturated, I take a break and come back to it. I agree 100% with your last sentence.

Best of luck with it.

[JTE]

Originally Posted by Asher S

...By "studying" I mean:

1. Listening to the great classics (Sam Jones, Ron Carter, Ray Brown to name nut a few): these musicians make it sound so much easier than it is!
2. Transcribing those lines that really resonate with you
3. Writing out your own lines, no matter how long it takes
4. Playing along with recordings
5. Practicing with other musicians

I'd add that besides just transcribing those lines, analyze them. Look at the chords, the flow of the bass line, and how the bassist is setting up the chord changes. This is where music theory really helps- it helps you define patterns that work. Instead of just copping some Ray Brown lines, it allows you to look at a lot of Ray Brown lines and say "this is what Ray does that sounds so cool!".

jte

[Jim Nazium]

Originally Posted by El Bajo

... I feel I'm missing something. I can't seem to be able to think about the approach notes that lead in to the beat 1 and 3 notes (Root and Fifth).

It might be a good idea to go back to chapter 1 for a while. Take a song or two that you know well, and just play quarter-note roots and fifths. Don't read it, do it from memory. At some point this will get really boring, which is probably a sign that you know it well enough to start adding the approach notes. When you can really hear the chord changes, and really hear the next root or fifth coming up, it will be easier to find and play an approach note that sounds good.

You're learning to hear these lines, not so much learning to play them.

I think it's worth it to take the time to master the material in the first 2 or 3 chapters of Ed's book. Don't dismiss it because it looks easy

[El Bajo]

Thansk again all. Good words, lots to think about, and listen to.

[kingbee]

As others have said, thinking ahead is the key.

When I first started playing walking bass, I was concerned with filling up each measure based solely on that measure's harmony. So if I had a measure of Am7, I would just bounce around some chord tones and slip in some chromatic notes where they fit. I was strictly thinking in a 1-2-3-4 kind of framework.

What turned it around for me was thinking about beats 2-3-4 in relation to the harmony and downbeat of the next measure. So instead of having the 2-3-4 move away from the 1 of that measure, they move TOWARDS to the 1 of the next measure. Now I play thinking 2-3-4-1. Not only did it help with the motion of my lines, but it also helped me to make smarter harmonic choices, adjusting chromatic tones to fit the chord tones of the subsequent measure.

[jojobean39]

I also have problems with this. It's very difficult for me to come up with those walking bass lines. I just cannot logically hear it. I'm amazed at those lines that move all over the place.

[PJSShearer]

I've been watching this thread for a couple of days trying to work out what my two pennorth would be..

In it's simplest form, a walking Bass line should, as kingbee says, be moving TOWARDS the first beat of the next Bar and, starting out, you should aim to hit the root of the chord on that beat.

I suggest picking a standard tune that you know, get the chord sheet and work on what I have just said - hit the root on Beat 1 of the first Bar and walk towards the root on Beat 1 of the next Bar and so on. Once you've tried that think about hitting other chord notes on Beat 1 and see if you can come up with a Bass line that sounds melodic in its own right. Then try singing the melody in your head and see if the two fit together - if you come up with a fluent line then just the melody and the Bass line should sound good "stand alone" before the piano player gets in the way!!.

[WalterBush]

Originally Posted by Jim Nazium

You're learning to hear these lines, not so much learning to play them.

This, +10. I bought the book when it came with a cassette. Now I feel more experienced than I did when I read this thread

The results you'll get from working through the book carefully in the first few chapters are well worth the effort, but nothing, and I mean nothing, compares with finding other guys to jam with over some chord progressions, or better yet, join a working band that'll force you to use what you've learned. You'll start hearing the lines more and find it much easier to bust them out.

Not having the option to "close the book and noodle" because of fear of public humiliation speeds up the learning process

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by kr0n

I think the commonly used approach notes are chord tones and chromatic approach notes. Meaning using the scale/chord notes or notes half-step away from the target note. I'm not much of a jazzer and my theory knowledge is very limited. I think these are the basic types. I'd assume the whole motion can be driven with variety of notes, such as the octave or rests. Keeping it simple.

What about non-chord tones?

[Bluesy Soul]

Originally Posted by Asher S

...Listening to the great classics (Sam Jones, Ron Carter, Ray Brown to name nut a few): these musicians make it sound so much easier than it is!

+1. In addition to those icons of jazz bass (who often do make it seem deceptively simple), listen to the blues--especially Chicago blues played with a shuffle beat. A shuffle beat and a walking bass line are the ham-and-eggs of the blues. In 12-bar blues progressions, the chord patterns are simple enough that you can focus more on the actual notes. You'll learn to pivot on a bV7 later. Try Sam Cooke ("Little Red Rooster", "Basin Street Blues") and B. B. King ("How Blue Can You Get", "Three O'Clock Blues", "T-Bone Shuffle") etc. And there are countless others.

And like so many others have said, keep at it and keep listening. Good luck.

Bluesy Soul

[jwbassman]

You should check out Jim Stinnett's "Creating Jazz Bass Lines" book. It also comes with a play along CD. For the last year I've been practicing along with the material. The main focus is on the "Half Step, Root Approach", which is IMO one of the major fundamentals of a walking "jazz" bass line. The practice CD I use has some basic 12 bar "blues" progressions. What you do is practice along with the tracks, using a half step above or below the root when approaching the chord change. Practice just this at first. Both half step above and below. After you've done that add in the 3rd,5th,and 7th (usually dominant 7th). do these one at a time. So you'd use the half step/root third, the whole progression using half step above, repeat, half step below, then do the same thing with 5ths and 7ths. If you do this and practice them isolated, eventually you'll be able to put these all together and come up with some real nice walking lines. I don't know if I explained this well.

Here's the link to Jim Stinnett's book. it's about halfway down the page. http://www.jimstinnett.com/books.html

[edfriedland]

Thanks for the lively discussion. El Bajo, I think you're on the right track. Keep at it, but give it time. This stuff is not super complex, but it does take a while to become natural. The suggestion to play with other people is a good one. yeah, you've got the tracks in the book, but live people (as opposed to dead ones) are always preferable.

You might want to use something like Amazing Slow Downer to change the tempo. If I were to write that book today, I'd make almost every track slower. Listen to lots of jazz, keep transcribing, keep practicing, you'll get it.