Can a 7 chord just be added in a key?

[Youngspanion]

I've got a chord book for guitar called "Mel Bays Complete Accompaniment Method for Guitar". In the book they have exercises that make you, within a certain Key, change from chord to chord. Example. In the Key of C, you switch from C to Am over and over to teach your fingers muscle memory. Then in the same key, you go from Am to Dm and then from Dm to G7. All the notes in these chords come from the key of C and your supposed to realize the notes that stay the same from chord to chord. Makes sense to me.

Then in the same exercise using the key of Am you go from Am to F. From F to Dm and then from Dm to E7. The 7 of the E7 is a G# or Ab. Not in the key of Am. Plus the fifth degree of the Am is an Em. Right?

[Bass Note]

Nono, thankfully they don't make things that complicated.

E7 is an "E Dominant 7" which means its the major chord with a minor (flattened) 7 thrown on top. An Emaj7 would be an E major with a major 7th put on top. An Emin7 is an E minor chord with a minor 7 on top.

[von buck]

I believe the 7 of a E7 is D and that's in Am, but I'm not sure what your askong.

Andy

[JtheJazzMan]

Berklee style harmony would describe that as a secondary dominant chord, that is, a non diatonic dominant 7th chord approaching a diatonic chord from a 4th/5th. E7 in the key of Cmaj/Amin(aeolian) is not strictly diatonic, but it easily functions in the key without disrupting the tonality of Cmaj/Amin.

Yes, a fifth up from Amin (aeolian) diatonically gives you Emin (phrygian) but you can hear its not a strong tension and release. Emin to Amin gives a softer, folk music sounding progression.

Replacing the Emin with E7 (mixolydian b9 b13) gives you a strong tension and release. Yes the notes are E G# B D and F if you want to put the b9 on

Welcome to western harmony, the iceberg only gets bigger from here

[Youngspanion]

What I'm asking is this. Is the E7 chord in the Key of Am?

[JtheJazzMan]

The chord E7 (mixo b9 b13) is borrowed from the key A harmonic minor.

You are putting that chord into the key of Cmaj/Amin to give the resolution to the chord A minor a sense of tension and release

[Youngspanion]

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

Berklee style harmony would describe that as a secondary dominant chord, that is, a non diatonic dominant 7th chord approaching a diatonic chord from a 4th/5th. E7 in the key of Cmaj/Amin(aeolian) is not strictly diatonic, but it easily functions in the key without disrupting the tonality of Cmaj/Amin.

Yes, a fifth up from Amin (aeolian) diatonically gives you Emin (phrygian) but you can hear its not a strong tension and release. Emin to Amin gives a softer, folk music sounding progression.

Replacing the Emin with E7 (mixolydian b9 b13) gives you a strong tension and release. Yes the notes are E G# B D and F if you want to put the b9 on

Welcome to western harmony, the iceberg only gets bigger from here

Do I have to attend Berklee to get this stuff?

thanks

[JtheJazzMan]

hah, or just a lecturer thats well versed in it

if youre the studying type you may want to look into it. its a harmony model that covers ~95% of all western music thats key based or "goal oriented". it covers all the simple stuff basically, and its a good basis for then studying other concepts like polytonality and pure melody etc

i recommend it over most simple harmony books because they always give a glossed over concept of keys. "C major" or "A minor" for example. its missing the point that youre stating that the orignal mode is the Ionian or the Aeolian for example.

[longfinger]

Originally Posted by Youngspanion

What I'm asking is this. Is the E7 chord in the Key of Am?

In a standard tonal system, yes.


Major keys are complete in regards to tonal harmony. Tonally complete chordal progressions can be made without altering the scale.

Minor keys are NOT complete in regards to tonal harmony. Tonally complete chordal progressions cannot be made without altering the scale.

To get the dominant to tonic resolution in minor, one has to raise the 7th scale degree. In A minor, this means the G becomes G# when in use as part of a Dominant-tonic progression.

E7 is the proper Dominant V7 chord of A minor. It has been altered, so it can function as a dominant.

What would happen if one did not raise the G to G#? As the chordal progressions continue, the sounds would eventually want to resolve to C major. A key centering around the note of A, would not happen without the G#.

[JtheJazzMan]

While i understand what you are saying, i cant agree that you are changing the scale.

When we say that a chord progression is in a minor key, we are saying that the chord progression's tonal centre is a mode with a minor tonality. The common one being the Aeolian mode.

To make the 5th degree of the minor scale a dominant 7th, you substitute a non diatonic chord in to create tension and release.

When you say that your changing the scale of the original mode youll end up with a whole bunch of new modes.

Eg in the progression

|: Am7 | G7 | Fmaj7 | E7 :|

the progression's tonal centre is A minor, youre only changing the scale of the E chord. The first 3 are all diatonic to Cmajor

I also wrote earlier that the E in this case need not be changed. Some folk music would just play an Eminor chord there, but its still in a minor tonality.

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

hah, or just a lecturer thats well versed in it

if youre the studying type you may want to look into it. its a harmony model that covers ~95% of all western music thats key based or "goal oriented". it covers all the simple stuff basically, and its a good basis for then studying other concepts like polytonality and pure melody etc

i recommend it over most simple harmony books because they always give a glossed over concept of keys. "C major" or "A minor" for example. its missing the point that youre stating that the orignal mode is the Ionian or the Aeolian for example.

If you're referring to a specific book, can you please provide its title, author, publisher, and ISBN number?

Thanks!

[JtheJazzMan]

No im not referring to a particular book. what im talking about is a pretty common interpretation of simple western harmony, picked up through university and textbooks. Mark Levines "The Jazz Theory Book" springs to mind but im not going to dig out all my books. im sure you can find that with those keywords

[Jazzdogg]

Thanks for your reply. From the way your posts were worded, I thought you may have been referring to a specific music theory book used in Berklee's program.

[JtheJazzMan]

ahh well the reference to berklee is more to do with the terminology. I think the terms "secondary dominant" were coined by the berklee crew. but i didnt want to say that the chord E7 in the key of Cmaj IS a secondary dominant as if thats the only way of describing it. i apologise if my humbleness was percieved as being narrow minded

secondary dominant is a good way to describe that the E7 is a chord substitution in the key, but one that is not far from the original key. as opposed to tritone/b5 substitution, which i suppose you could call tertiary if you want. im quite happy to explain over any terms ive used, i know that things are not standardised in music, nor should they be.

[Stumpy]

Originally Posted by Youngspanion

I've got a chord book for guitar called "Mel Bays Complete Accompaniment Method for Guitar". In the book they have exercises that make you, within a certain Key, change from chord to chord. Example. In the Key of C, you switch from C to Am over and over to teach your fingers muscle memory. Then in the same key, you go from Am to Dm and then from Dm to G7. All the notes in these chords come from the key of C and your supposed to realize the notes that stay the same from chord to chord. Makes sense to me.

Then in the same exercise using the key of Am you go from Am to F. From F to Dm and then from Dm to E7. The 7 of the E7 is a G# or Ab. Not in the key of Am. Plus the fifth degree of the Am is an Em. Right?

The 3rd is the #note E, G#, B, D

Yes you can stick any 7th chord in any key you like the sound of...but remember that a Dom7 chord is a fairly active (needing to go somewhere) type of chord.

Try a sus chord and see how you like the sound of it. 1, 4, 5, 7 or C, F, G, Bb - or a C7sus4 chord... I love those