Can anybody here explain the circle of fifths to me?

nortonrider · #1 01-10-2009, 04:25 PM

OK, I'm not a complete idiot when it comes to all things music theory, I can hack my way through figuring out the notes in bass cleff if given enough time, but this circle of fifths has me stumped.

PLEASE, If you are going to give me the prodigy answers, dont bother, I don't understand them.
You all know, the regular responses:

Its the 12 chromatic pitch...Blah, Blah, Blah
OR
It goes 1 sharp then 2 sharps then 3 sharps
OR
If you read it backwards it's the circle of fourths
ETC...

I have the books that say all of that stuff already. But I just plain do not get it.

I know that it must be important because I have seen it everywhere. My problem is everytime that sit down and tell myself that I am going to figure this out, I just get frustrated and throw the books aside. It's like it is written in a different language.

Can anyone please explain it in a manner that a common man can understand?

Does it have to do with chord progressions?

What key the song is in?

I seriously haven't even found a description of the circle of fifths that clearly explains why it is necessary to know it.

Thanks in advance.

dontcallmeQRACK · #2 01-10-2009, 04:29 PM

Check out - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

If you have any more specific questions email me at mikestrianese@hotmail.com

nortonrider · #3 01-10-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontcallmeQRACK

Check out - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

If you have any more specific questions email me at mikestrianese@hotmail.com

Dude,
I have read everything on the first 3 pages of google concerning the circle, as well as the 6 different learn to play the bass books and the 2 music theory books that I have.

None if that stuff makes any sense to me, I thought that I made that part pretty clear.

Also, please don't say "use the search button" I've already done that too.

I just looking for a blue collar common sense description as to what it is and why it's important.

kevinmoore73 · #4 01-10-2009, 04:52 PM

Do you know anything about the major scale? Anything at all? Do you know what a circle is?

Let's start with that stuff.

BahamaBass · #5 01-10-2009, 05:36 PM

basically if you start on C the next note above which is G is a 5th apart. so you would then go to D and then A and so on up the neck in 5ths. you can also go backwards down the neck.

basically it helps one figure what notes or chords can or are used in a song or progression.

you can find the notes by looking at this as well: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...s_deluxe_4.svg

it shows how many sharps or flats are in a scale as well. notice when I said "start on C the next note above which is G is a 5th apart. so you would then go to D and then A and so on up the neck." you can see from the diagram we were moving clockwise and dealing with sharps. So we can see G major scale has one sharp in it. and C has no sharps or flats.

we can also see the relative minors in the middle of the circle. The relative minor to G is Em and how many sharps are in the Em scale?.... one sharp. we can see that from the Circle of 5ths Diagram. you can also check it out on your guitar.

most songs use circle of 5ths its just theory but can help figure things out with it.

Dogbertday · #6 01-10-2009, 05:45 PM

Play through the pitches going around the circle (counterclockwise as well) and you will hear strong movements... the circle of fifths/fourths is simply a way of arranging them and refering to them... if you base a chord progression on the cirlce of fifths you will get a strong chord progression such as {i iv VII III VI iidim V i} in a minor key.

One must always remember that music is sound... not notes

Jimmyplaysabass · #7 01-10-2009, 05:49 PM

the key of c has no sharps or flats.

if you were to add a sharp you would be in the key of G which is either a fifth up from C or a fourth down from C

to find out what key you would be in if you were to add one flat you would go down a fifth putting you at F (the key of F has one flat) or you would go up a fourth.

the circle of fifths is simpley the relationship between the key signatures

lets say there are 3 sharps in the key signature. in order to figure out what key you are in you would start at C and go up 3 fifths. the fifth of c is G, G major has 1 sharp. Go up another fifth, now you're in the key of D, the key of D has 2 sharps. Finally go up another fifth, now you're in the key of A, the key of A has 3 sharps.

Jake of Bass · #8 01-10-2009, 05:52 PM

Have you read these?

http://www.studybass.com/lessons/har...ifths-diagram/

http://www.studybass.com/lessons/har...cle-of-fifths/

Jake of Bass · #9 01-10-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nortonrider

Can anyone please explain it in a manner that a common man can understand?

Does it have to do with chord progressions?

What key the song is in?

I seriously haven't even found a description of the circle of fifths that clearly explains why it is necessary to know it.

Thanks in advance.

From the first link I posted:

"The circle of fifths is a diagram used in music theory that helps students memorize and understand the 24 major and minor keys used in music, key relationships, and many chord relationships."

Bass-desires · #10 01-10-2009, 05:54 PM

I am on the same journey as well. I look at it and think, "Wow that looks cool, but I have no idea what it means to me."

I work in the medical field and the hardest part of starting is getting lingo down and actually knowing what it means. I really think the commonly used guides to the circle of 5ths is assuming you know the lingo.

I think what he is asking and myself included is can you explain it without the lingo?

Does that help any? Or did I just make things worse?

bThumper38 · #11 01-10-2009, 05:59 PM

Jimmyplaysabass pretty much describes it perfectly.

DocBop · #12 01-10-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyplaysabass

the circle of fifths is simpley the relationship between the key signatures

It's more then key sig's it's also your strong chord movement of up a fourth or down a fifth. Use it also to cycle thru chords.

COOL AND DEADLY · #13 01-10-2009, 08:28 PM

It also gives you the relative minors. So if you are playing in C major and move to A minor it will sound like it belongs together. Also if you are soloing in C major you can move into A minor and back because it has all the same notes.

nortonrider · #14 01-10-2009, 09:40 PM

OK, now I feel like a complete moron!

First off, the Fancy Circle Chart that I have is completely fully of letters, numbers, sharps, flats, doodads, curly things, thingamajigs and a bunch of other stuff. All of the books that I have read like the blueprints for a atomic accelerator.

After starting this thread I printed out a basic circle of fifths off of the internet. I took one look at the thing and I was like DUH!
I know the entire thing forwards and backwards, I have been doing this stuff for years. Anybody that knows a major scale know this.

The "learning" material that I have really just complicated things and made my brain think "what the hell?" and shut itself off.

Go ahead and and flame away, I deserve it.

OH, and thanks to everyone for trying to explain it to me.

DocBop · #15 01-10-2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COOL AND DEADLY

It also gives you the relative minors. So if you are playing in C major and move to A minor it will sound like it belongs together. Also if you are soloing in C major you can move into A minor and back because it has all the same notes.

Your talking like a guitar player. They do wacky analysis to try and reduce songs to one or two scales. They are also taking advantage of "play any note fast enough it works."

Yes, C major and its relative minor A natural minor have the same notes, BUT the notes you emphasize are different. So you might be using some A minor fingering pattern but your note choices need to be C major if a C major chord or key.

REAPER52 · #16 01-10-2009, 11:59 PM

Nortonrider
I know whats wrong - back when i rode a Norton-good bike too-- i was confused ,,Then i got a Harley and it all went away-----lol

Dudaronamous · #17 01-10-2009, 11:59 PM

Do yourself a favor and take some music lessons from someone who understands it and can explain it to you. Learn the definitions of major and minor scales, and which tones in the scales form chords. The circle of fifths will start to make sense after you learn those basics, but I don't think it will make much sense without that knowledge. Don't despair and stick with it, your playing will improve as you learn these concepts. Regards.

cooptroop123 · #18 01-11-2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogbertday

One must always remember that music is sound... not notes

how about both? and I believe there are also much more elements to music than the vague word "sound"

slybass3000 · #19 01-11-2009, 12:13 AM

Cycles in music seems to go down so........
Try this: play 5 descending notes all the time ,you'll have your cycle of fifths by going through your flats then going to your sharps.

Here is the sequence:
C-B-A-G-F
F-E-D-C-Bb
Bb-A-G-F-Eb etc.

I hope this will make sense to you,

Sly

nortonrider · #20 01-11-2009, 09:07 AM

You know, If just one of my books would have had something like:
1-5
root-fifth
or even
power chord

in its description of the circle, It would have been a no brainer. That is bread and butter stuff right there. fifths, fourths, I got that part down and have had it for quite some time.

now if I can just decypher the key signature segment (this has 3 sharps then you add 2 more sharps, etc...), I will be a happy man.

Thanks again.