Can anybody here explain the circle of fifths to me?

[stewart8980]

i thought that the circle of 5ths was mainly to show a common "mood" change between identical intervals. as in

two different sets of notes with identical intervals, share a common "feeling"

[double_stop2584]

I wouldn't say I even have the circle of fifths memorized, but I definitely know what it is. If you threw a key signature at me, showed me a bunch of flats and said "NAME IT!" I probably would hesitate before answering, and my answer would be based more on knowledge i got from playing piano and trombone, and not the circle of fifths.

The circle of fifths is, in my opinion, simply a way of saying that if you start on C and go up a fifth, then go up another fifth...you will hit every single note in the diatonic scale before you hit C again. w00t.

Then if you make a circle diagram out of this nifty piece of info, with C at the 12 o'clock position, and then go to the right, each key signature will have one more sharp in it than the previous one, until you hit 7 sharps because that's all you can possibly have.

If you go to the left, each key signature has one more flat than the previous one, until you hit 7, which is all you can possibly have!

That's about all I ever got out of it, and I think that's about all you really need to get out of it. Just play the bass line to "I Will Survive," and if it makes sense musically for the first four bars, then you have the circle of fifths down.

[Poor Tom]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Your talking like a guitar player. They do wacky analysis to try and reduce songs to one or two scales. They are also taking advantage of "play any note fast enough it works."

Yes, C major and its relative minor A natural minor have the same notes, BUT the notes you emphasize are different. So you might be using some A minor fingering pattern but your note choices need to be C major if a C major chord or key.

No, he is not talking like a guitar player. The point of knowing this stuff is so as a player you are able to seamlessly move in and out of any key and make it "fit" and sound good while doing so. Of course the emphasis on certain notes is different. I didn't get any hint from his post that he was trying to over simplify things. It actually gets much more confusing rather than simple.

[DanAleks]

Here's what I take away from the circle:

It's a pictorial representation of tone/key movement.

Just to make sure we're all on the same page, look here:
Poster I made Thank you Cameronj, this is great!

Pick one of the Major scales
Move one position counter clockwise.
Now, moving clockwise without altering any scale tones,
the next 3 Major and the next 4 minor name the triads in the original Major scale you chose.

Example: F Major
1 position counterclockwise is Bb
In the F Major scale you will find a Bb Major triad, F Major triad and a C Major triad.
There's a G minor triad, D minor triad, A minor triad and an E minor triad.

This is the same for 7th chords with 2 exceptions:
The furthest clockwise on the Major ring would have a flat 7th to give you the dominant,
and the furthest clockwise on the minor ring would have a flat 5th and seventh to give you a half-diminished.

Next, the circle shows one way to modulate (change keys) from one Major key to a 'near by' Major key.
A common progression in Jazz is the 2-5-1 (usually written ii7-V7-I7 meaning "the second degree of a Major scale, which is a minor chord - the fifth degree of a Major scale, which is a Dominant chord - the first degree of a Major scale, which is a Major chord").

The 2 chord implies movement to the 5 which moves to the 1 which implies rest. If you're modulating to another key, you'll postpone the 1 chord.

Stay with me here...
so, if you play a 2-5 and change the 5 to a 2 it modulates to another key. You can go around the circle, counter clockwise by doing this.

Example:
In the key of F Major, the 2-5 would be
G-7 (read 'G minor 7) - C7.
G Bb D F - C E G Bb
Change the C7 to a minor by flatting the third degreee of the chord. C Eb G Bb which is the 2 chord in the key of Bb Major.
C Eb G Bb - F A C Eb (C-7 - F7) is the 2 - 5 chord progression in Bb Major.

Make the F7 (the 5 chord) minor by flatting the 3rd degree of the chord. F Ab C Eb. This is the 2 chord in Eb Major.
F-7 - Bb7 is the 2-5 in the key of Eb Major.

Keep doing this and you'll go counter clockwise around the entire circle.
Near the bottom, you'll need to re-name the chords and scales to their enharmonic name.

If this is really confusing you, take it to a piano. It's the best visual representation there is for this kind of thing.

If I can help further, please PM me.

Whew! Thank you Tony King!

[zgas]

The reason for the circle is the series of intervals it takes to make a major scale, which is whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step.

Sit down at a piano and start on C and these are all white notes; go up to G and play the same intervals and you are forced to include an F#; in D you need an F# and a C# etc.

Going down from C to F, you need a Bb to make the intervals work; start on a Bb and you need a Bb and an Eb; etc.

[ProfGumby]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

OK, now I feel like a complete moron!

First off, the Fancy Circle Chart that I have is completely fully of letters, numbers, sharps, flats, doodads, curly things, thingamajigs and a bunch of other stuff. All of the books that I have read like the blueprints for a atomic accelerator.

After starting this thread I printed out a basic circle of fifths off of the internet. I took one look at the thing and I was like DUH!
I know the entire thing forwards and backwards, I have been doing this stuff for years. Anybody that knows a major scale know this.

The "learning" material that I have really just complicated things and made my brain think "what the hell?" and shut itself off.

Go ahead and and flame away, I deserve it.


OH, and thanks to everyone for trying to explain it to me.

Dude, I feel your pain. Most of music theory reads like the back page of a Chinese menu to me. Maybe there is someone near you that can show you? I know I learn better when I am physically shown something. Sometimes 3 or 4 times!

So rest assured, you are not alone.

[mambo4]

I guess I see it as having 2 basic functions:

1.) helps you memorize the number of sharps/flats for each key
2.) helps you memorize the V-I or I-IV chord movement, which is probably the most common chord movement in western music. It also helps you see the logic of other common chord movements,. (for example, a vi-ii-V-I is basically a trip around part of the circle)