Cb Major

[rarisgod]

Alright, so I'm having a scale test tomorrow. It's the first of many, and I get to pick which scales I get tested on. So I'd like to start with Cb major as one of them, having the most flats. I know it doesn't make much different on bass as you can just play in the same pattern for all major scales.

But if I'm going in and saying "I'd like to play Cb Major" what is the difference between this and B Major? Would it even make sense to differentiate between the two, or can they be considered one and the same?

[Jake of Bass]

Cb major wouldn't be a good idea. It's attempting to show off more knowledge than you have to apply it correctly. In rare instances it makes sense to modulate to Cb, but 99% of the time you'd would call it B major.

I'm willing to have it explained otherwise, but IMO it's best to keep it within the Circle of Fifths. Playing something and calling it Cb could actually be seen as you NOT understanding the CoF, and thus be marked against you.

Just go with B major.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by rarisgod

Alright, so I'm having a scale test tomorrow. It's the first of many, and I get to pick which scales I get tested on. So I'd like to start with Cb major as one of them, having the most flats. I know it doesn't make much different on bass as you can just play in the same pattern for all major scales.

But if I'm going in and saying "I'd like to play Cb Major" what is the difference between this and B Major? Would it even make sense to differentiate between the two, or can they be considered one and the same?

i believe that because Cb major is related to the key of Ab minor you would not be able to spell it using B as be is a sharped key.....but im at the limit of my knowledge here . check with a pro

[rarisgod]

But if you look at it that way, B Major is relative to G# Major, which is the same as Ab Major...
That's where it gets confusing to me...

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by rarisgod

But if you look at it that way, B Major is relative to G# Major, which is the same as Ab Major...
That's where it gets confusing to me...

but if you spell G# you end up with 2 g's in the scale or an F##

[Jake of Bass]

Originally Posted by rarisgod

But if you look at it that way, B Major is relative to G# Major, which is the same as Ab Major...
That's where it gets confusing to me...

G# minor.

A major (Ionian) scale has no relative major (Ionian) scale. That's called changing key.


Scale tones for B major are: B C# D# E F# G# A

Scale tones for G# minor are: G# A B C# D# E F#


Same notes, different harmonic qualities when you consider the root of each scale as the tonic (same difference really).


Comprende?

[envika]

Cb Major is most commonly used in harp notation because it is the home key of the pedal harp--all the pedals are flat, which makes the harp's string length longest--which in turn makes it more resonant.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Jake of Bass

G# minor.

Scale tones for B major are: B C# D# E F# G# A

Scale tones for G# minor are: G# A B C# D# E F#


Same notes, different harmonic qualities when you consider the root of each scale as the tonic.


Comprende?

if the key is Ab minor you use scales relative to Ab mi .....im going to defer to jake here as im sure hes more current with this than me but if memory serves there is a reason to use Cb instead of B relating to the correct spelling ....in practical terms its prolly not important

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by envika

Cb Major is most commonly used in harp notation because it is the home key of the pedal harp--all the pedals are flat, which makes the harp's string length longest--which in turn makes it more resonant.

ok so did i get it right....close.....fail....

[Jake of Bass]

It sounds like a strange way to consider music theory and arrangement of notes, but then again I know nothing about harps other than they're heavy and have a LOT of strings

[Jake of Bass]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

if the key is Ab minor you use scales relative to Ab mi .....im going to defer to jake here as im sure hes more current with this than me but if memory serves there is a reason to use Cb instead of B relating to the correct spelling ....in practical terms its prolly not important

You can use either, but in reality most people find it easier to think of a key using five sharps (B major) rather than seven flats (Cb major). Partly because thinking of your IV scale degree as being E is a lot less confusing than Fb.

Take a look at this for further info:

http://www.studybass.com/lessons/har...ifths-diagram/

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Jake of Bass

It sounds like a strange way to consider music theory and arrangement of notes, but then again I know nothing about harps other than they're heavy and have a LOT of strings

i think that the spelling is for consistency....outside of the conservatory/pedal harp players im not sure about how useful knowing this is......if i ever run into loreena mckinnit i'll ask

[Jim Campbell]

im just guessing but it seems that if all the pedals flatten their strings,when released all the notes would be open,hence at their longest....

[Dogbertday]

I would just go in and say B major. The truth is you'll look like you're tryng to get away with something. It's like transcribing a melody from C to C#. If it's a playing scale test you'll be just looked at weird and then they'll say you should just call it B major (or make you spell Cb major.. AAAHHHH) and if it's writing the scale you'll be seen as taking the easy way out.

just my 2 cents

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Dogbertday

I would just go in and say B major. The truth is you'll look like you're tryng to get away with something. It's like transcribing a melody from C to C#. If it's a playing scale test you'll be just looked at weird and then they'll say you should just call it B major (or make you spell Cb major.. AAAHHHH) and if it's writing the scale you'll be seen as taking the easy way out.

just my 2 cents

all depends on how much theoretical stuff you need for your grade....if you think Cb is going to be called,learn it,if not use B

[rarisgod]

Well that's what I mean, like we were told to learn the scales for all 7 sharps and all 7 flats, but if we have to learn B Major, is there really a point to saying "Cb Major"?

[rarisgod]

Originally Posted by Jake of Bass

G# minor.

A major (Ionian) scale has no relative major (Ionian) scale. That's called changing key.


Scale tones for B major are: B C# D# E F# G# A

Scale tones for G# minor are: G# A B C# D# E F#


Same notes, different harmonic qualities when you consider the root of each scale as the tonic (same difference really).


Comprende?

Oops...I meant to say G# Minor.

[nothumb]

this would be kind of like getting to pick your own route for a driver's test and deciding to do the whole thing in reverse.

[Jake of Bass]

Originally Posted by nothumb

this would be kind of like getting to pick your own route for a driver's test and deciding to do the whole thing in reverse.

Well put.


The other thing to consider is that afterwards the first question you're likely to face is "Why did you choose Cb major over it's enharmonic equivalent B major?"

Saying something like "It sounds more impressive that way" probably won't give you extra marks...

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by rarisgod

Well that's what I mean, like we were told to learn the scales for all 7 sharps and all 7 flats, but if we have to learn B Major, is there really a point to saying "Cb Major"?

if you plan on spending time in Ab mi yes........if you are going to be graded on it yes,will you use it playing rock,i doubt it