Chicken wings and california rolls

[ZachOrem]

Hello everyone. If you'll allow an ignorant, middling bassist to introduce himself, please read on.

My name is Zachary. I'm in my early twenties and live in a small town trapped inside a little city - a place where the streets are paved with cigerette butts and big-mac wrappers and racism has it's own holiday. A cutural void through and through. Although I suppose anyplace where one is trapped would feel like hell on Earth.

One of the pastimes I indulge in so as to numb the antipathy I feel for this place is that low-toned instrument which I assume we all share a particular affinity for.

But affinity of course, does not a great bassist make, and never was it more true than in my case. I love my four strings like a gorilla loving a kitten, but unholy talent is not something I possess. That being said, I turn to you, and your collective expertise.

I have been playing for six-ish months. I know my fretboard up and down when tuned standard, and can play pretty cleanly. I've been focusing on my form, and it's rare that I let a note ring when it's not supposed to. But I've hit a rut. Every song I learn seems to either be too easy, or far too hard. Slap is a little out of my league right now, although if anyone can point me to a comprehensive tutorial, I'd be very appreciative.

I've learned Jethro Tull's "Bouree", Chili Peppers' "Otherside" and "Dani California", Fleetwood Mac's "Go Your Own Way", Heatmiser's "Blue Highway" and... well I guess "Come Together" by the Beatles, but that doesn't really count. I just used it as practice for muting the A string when jumping to the G string.

Dani California is the hardest on the list - and I think I have it in me to go a little harder. So please - look back on your own meandering at the start of your bassing career and remember the songs or excercises that made you better. Help me TalkBass forums... you're my only hope.

tl;dr

List songs or exercises that are fun and challenging for a newb bassist to learn.

[Jake D]

Money, by Pink Floyd.

[stratovani]

Zachary, four little letters - RUSH!

Learn as many Rush songs as you can. I forgot who said it but in their recent documantary Rush: Beyond The Lighted Stage he said that learn Rush and you can play anything.

Also, play out with other musicians. I don't know what you have for transportation but there's got to be some jams or open mics in your area. It's a great way to improve your playing. You might even pick up some tips from other more-experienced bassists.

[subject42]

Originally Posted by ZachOrem

I've learned Jethro Tull's "Bouree"

As another bass newb (and first time poster), I'm running into a similar rut. Maybe I can help out with some of the stuff that I've seen so far.

Before anything else, I need to say that if you picked up Jethro Tull's Bouree in its entirety, including the layered chords that he builds during the solo, you're doing absurdly well at this point. You're an inspiration and my hat is off to you on that one. It took me several months of consistent practice and I still screw up that solo more than I get it right.

If I'm looking for a challenge, I go straight back to the 70s. Stuff like the James Gang's "Funk 49" isn't incredibly mind-blowingly finger straining, but it has a nice groove and it's non-intuitive enough at points to make you step back and think about how to play it efficiently.

Old Motown numbers are a good start, too, depending on your skill level and rhythm control. Stuff like "Bernadette" or Thelma Houston's "Don't Leave Me This Way" will make you think about rhythm a bit differently.

If you want to give slap a try, I'd recommend Larry Graham's "Pow". It's CRAZY fast, but if you slow it down a bit you'll start to figure out how you're supposed to slap, even if you can't do it right away. I still can't do it at full speed, but it's a nice feeling of accomplishment to get from one end to the other.

For modern stuff, Stone Temple Pilots are good for bass. If you look at a song like "Interstate Love Song", it uses chords that go well past the traditional power chord and forces you to really learn your chordal structures and arpeggios.

That's all I've got for now. I hope it helps.

[dvh]

It's one thing to learn a song note for note and another to undesrtand why those notes work. Check out the General Instruction forum and get into learning some theory - there's a life's work for you.

Also, try playing the songs you've learned at different tempos - see what that makes you do for your rhythm and note choices. You want to be a musician, not just an imitator.

And yes - find people to play with - and just jam.

[skwee]

Maybe it's time for you to start arranging tunes you know, so that some creativity starts to flow. Do them in Garageband, tape deck, or what ever floats your boat.

[becker4567]

Just keep going! There is no silver bullet or magic potion to becoming a good bassist. Ya, I get it that you lack supreme, god given talent, but very, very few people have it. Most just keep plodding along, getting a little better every time they pick up the instrument. If the desire is there, then the talent will surface. And if my sausage like fingers (who steadfastly refuse to work as a team) can play bass, so can yours! Oh, and one more thing, there will come a time (guaranteed) that you will look back on that little hell hole of a town, and wish you were back there! I don't know anyone who grew up in paradise, so stop complaining about your life! There are American kids in Afghanistan right now who would probably be tickled to death to trade places with you.

"I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet"

[FritoBandito]

I absolutely hated the Calif. town I grew up in until I returned from Vietnam. After 13 months away, that one horse town looked pretty darn good!

[MalcolmAmos]

OK you've got your 15 songs note for note.

The director says; "The next one is Kiss ole Kate we will do it in A, ready, 1 and 2 and 3........"

Kiss ole Kate is not one of your 15. Can you jam? Jamming is next.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SonfPofwxM&feature=fvw

Look at all the jamming tracks on the right hand side of the screen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX5USg8_1gA

Have fun.

[ZachOrem]

Thanks for the responces so far guys.

Jake D; Money is on my list of songs to learn! I'll tackle it next, I think. Thanks for the direction.

stratovani; RUSH was mentioned in Futurama, so I guess they can't be too bad. I don't know mutch other than 'Tom Sawyer'... if that is even the name of the song. I don't know. But I'll find some of their stuff and give it a listen. Thanks for the advice. As for playing with other musicians, I'm afraid that it's a no go for me right now. I live in a terrible city (if you can even call a population of 14,000 a city) that is filled with drunks and the cliquiness factor therein is huge. As an outsider who didn't grow up here, I don't have a lot of connections... factor in my TERRIBLE SOCIAL ANXIETY and I have myself a solo career... for now at least. I'll make due.

subject42; Thanks for the compliment, but you mistook my meaning - my fault for being vague. I've 'learned' Bouree, but I'm sure my execution would strike most people here as wildly amaturish at best... discordance at worst. But every so often... I get it just right, and I've spent more than a month doing nothing but working, sleeping and bassing (I'm a bit of a shut in) for the privilege. Pride is a sin, but a damn tempting one considering how hard I've practiced to get where I am.

Just by reading what you've suggested, I can see you're far ahead of me in terms of style. I really appreciate the direction you've given me. My musical taste is very unrefined, and although I'm trying hard to broaden my horizons, I find nothing beats leaching off the expierence of my betters. If you have anything more to suggest, I'm all ears.

dvh; My guitar teacher gave me "Elementary Rudiments of Music" by Barbara Wharram. I am not far. I am learning key signatures now. I have the basics such as the placement of notes on the 4 clefs and scales mastered. It truly will be a lifetime's work as you say. There is no way I can see to absorb this information quickly. If you have any excercises (I find flash cards help a lot) that will help me speed up the process, I would be very appreciative if you would share them with me.

What do you mean by "what that makes you do for your rhythm and note choices."?

skwee; I looked up how to arrange a tune. I don't think I'm ready for it just yet. Thank you for the suggestion.

FritoBandito; I'm sorry to be so crass, but it is my way. I see by your profile that you fall into the age range for those who served in Vietnam during the war that ended back in the 70's. If I read your implications correctly, you served during that war - a thing I greatly respect you for, sir. I cannot imagine the horrors of war in a sunlit desert, let alone those of a war in a dark jungle. But your analogy is flawed. You see this place I live in as my home when in reality it is my Vietnam.

MalcolmAmos; Please forgive my extreme ignorance - and I realize how stupid this will sound, but do you have any advice on how to improvise? Everything I do sounds like noise to a beat instead of music. Do you know what I mean?


Also - I bought a new (used) Fender Bassman150 and turned it up all the way for JUST ONE NOTE because I had to. I am only a man, and the desire see how loud I could make things was too powerful for me to resist. The resultant BOOM on low E was so powerful that it shook my tiny apartment and made like 3 babies cry. Which is not something I am proud of, but you have to admit is pretty awesome.

[dvh]

Hey Zach, I can't suggest anything better than you'll find in the General Instruction stickies...

What i mean by my other comment is that playing music is more than just memorizing songs. That's how a lot of people start out and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. But - think about it - are you playing the song with competence and confidence because you understand it's structure and chords? Or with competence and confidence because you've listened and practiced for so long you know you can imitate it well?

What if you're with a group of people who want to play it in a different tempo? The rhythm is different - that changes things; hence, other notes might be better to play.

Even more challenging: what if someone wants the song in a different key?

None of this matters so much if the goal is to mainly play covers of contemporary and classic rock. Many players and bands make decent fun - and sometimes money(!) - learning such songs by ear.

However, if you want to be MORE of a musician, and follow a path that will be challenging but more creatively rewarding, understanding why and how music works is the path... (hey - instead of playing this straight major arpeggio I can play it as a minor on the third degree...)

You seem like a player who's more interested in that one. Have fun!

[MalcolmAmos]

MalcolmAmos; ...... but do you have any advice on how to improvise? Everything I do sounds like noise to a beat instead of music. Do you know what I mean?

Yes I understand what you mean. A string of notes is just that, a string of notes, that may or may not have anything to do with the song that is being played. If it does not match what is being played noise develops.

Improvising a bass line.

• We play chord tones. So basing your bass line on the chords being played in the song is a good idea.
• That being said you have to know what chords are being used in the song.
• You can assume a cookie cutter progression of I IV V or ii V I and then watch the rhythm guitar's hands and change chords when he does. Or just listen for the chord changes - good luck with that.

Now what do you play over the chord changes? That is left up to you, that is why it's called improvising. Developing a groove is our goal. Sometime just a bunch of roots accomplish this and sometime that is not appropriate. I suggest you have some generic chord tone patterns stored in muscle memory and draw from them as you think best. For example over the C chord you could play:

C chord -- R-R-R-R or R-R-8-8 or R-8-R-8 or R-5-8-5 or R-3-5-8 or R-3-5-8-8-7-6-5 or......... get the picture - tones of the C chord.
Now if that C was Cm then the b3 becomes important to the sound and you throw in some b3's into the mix.
If that C was C7 then the b7's enter the picture and you get some of them into the mix.

Improvising is the art of composing on the fly the bass line that will work with this specific song. Helps to have stored in muscle memory several generic, safe go to chord tone patterns, that you can call upon as needed. You get that started by not relying upon tabs to produce your music. It's OK to peek at tabs to work out specific lines, but, the sooner you can divorce yourself from tabs the sooner your bass lines become your own. Of course IMHO.

See what you can do with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4x0u...eature=related
First two measures -- just A notes for 4 beats then just D notes for 4 beats and when you get comfortable then flesh out the bass line working toward full chord tones R-b3-5-b7 for the Am7 and R-3-5-b7 for the D7. Baby steps first. Those measures with two chords in them you only have 4 beats for the measure R-5 for both works or R-5 for one and R-3 for the other. Do what you think best.

It's a paradigm shift will take you awhile ......


Good luck.

[OnePocket]

hey Zach
Check out this thread on Ed Friedland's Building walking bass lines. It's an on going group class here on TB just starting. Ed's books on Groove, Blues, Reggae are also great. And his Beginner bass method series is a great way to learn music theory and be introduced to a lot of different styles of music. You can find a number of his mini lessons on youtube (see the one on Reggae) and he will be monitoring the Walking Bassline thread to answer questions.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showth...95#post9405495

Learning the Jazz type walking bass lines is a great way to learn the function of the various notes in a chord and how to transition smoothly between chords to help you with your arranging. I am not sure the poster meant for you to do formal arrangements as much as just try to play something along with songs that fits to improve your ear, very useful in situations where there is a song played that you don't know and you have to do something.

Lastly, and this is a bit intrusive, but consider getting some treatment for your social anxiety. We have great meds for that now and there is no reason for you to continue to suffer from this illness. Playing alone will get old and you will grow much faster playing with others.

Best of luck
Steve( a very modest talent bassist of three years experience who plays a lot too)( and a psychiatrist)

[ZachOrem]

dvh; You're right about the stickies. From what little surface I've skimmed so far, TalkBass strikes me as an awesome knowledge base. I'm very much looking forward to my time here. I just hope I can avoid any silly internet drama. Looking around, I'm sure that it won't be an issue.

You're right about me, I'm happy to admit. I am more interested in the creative aspect of playing music. While learning songs note by note from tablature is worthwhile to train my form, I realize that doing so resembles tracing the outline of a work of art - no real crative effort. My goal is to create something of my own - not be trapped and left to colour within the lines of another person's work.

You seem very knowledgible. Do you mind if I contact you if I have any questions regarding my theory work?

MalcolmAmos; This... will take me awhile to digest. I think I understand what you mean, and if so I think it is a simple matter of memory work and forming good habits. I'll check out the link and try to get my head around it soon. Thank you.

What is 'R'? An open string?

I try to jam along with the beat whenever I'm listening to music - to develop my groove if nothing else. My bass never leaves my lap when I'm at home. I call him Sebastian.

OnePocket; Thanks for the suggestion. I'll be sure to keep up with Mr. Friedland's class. I haven't given the thread a look yet - but I will be sure to soon. I really like walking basslines, and the more involved the better. There's really no feeling like dancing your fretting hand all the way down the board and nailing each and every note. Mind you... I don't get to expierence that feeling very often, so it might just be novelty in my case.

As for my introversion - it is a long and personal story that strangers wouldn't find any interest in. I am not one to wallow in self pity and by no means am I an awkward person, but the the fact is that I have given up (at lest for the time being) on friendship and although I once believed in the inherent goodness of the human soul - I have lost any empathy I had for my fellow man. Which is not to say that I am a cruel thing - just a thing with more insight into how evil and stupid a person can be. I suppose I could take medicine to lubricate the rusty cogs of my social schema, but to be honest - I think doing so would be an insult to the events that have transpired in my life. I appreciate your concern, but I am a happy lonely person. The world is beautiful, and there is enough art to end my life a hundred times or more. Why bother with the meandering small talk of my fellow serfs? (edit) And why subject them to my own inane thoughts and ideals?

[MalcolmAmos]

What is 'R'? An open string?

No not an open string. R is the root note of the scale. OK back to my question; "What is the root"? It's the first note of a scale. Think of R being the 1 note (degree) of a chord or scale. The name of the basic chord or scale. Let's not get into inversions......

Scale interval ..1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 (octave)
Notes in scale C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

A major chord is made of the R-3-5 notes of the tonic scale. C chord is made of the C, E and G notes. So we can take that generic concept other places we write that as R-3-5. Now if you were playing over the F chord - as F is a major chord if you played the R-3-5 notes of the F scale you would be playing the chord tones of the F chord.

Sounds like you are needing some handy dandy scale and chord charts.

[ZachOrem]

Ah. It is all made clear now. I'm familiar with degrees of a scale. Standard notation is not my strong suit yet, but I'll get there. Thanks for being so helpful.

[dvh]

Sure Zach - especially for a fellow Canuck! Use PM (private messaging)

You can access that by clicking on the username...