chord function questions

[varunkapahi]

in a major key,

is the iii chord a tonic function or a dominant function!?

is the vi chord a tonic function or a sub dominant function?

because they both share two chord tones with either probables, am confused

for example: like the ii chord is a sub dominant function and the vii is a dominant function i cant figure out how do the iii and iv behave?

[bluesbass99]

In a major key, both the iii & vi are minor chords. The vii is a diminished chord, while the IV & V are major chords. Hope this helps.

[varunkapahi]

Originally Posted by Stevens1212

In a major key, both the iii & vi are minor chords. The vii is a diminished chord, while the IV & V are major chords. Hope this helps.

yes i know that, but like the II chord is a sub dominant function and the VII is a dominant function i cant figure out how do the III and VI behave?

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by varunkapahi

in a major key,

is the III chord a tonic function or a dominant function!?

is the VI chord a tonic function or a sub dominant function?

because they both share two chord tones with either probables, am confused

for example: like the II chord is a sub dominant function and the VII is a dominant function i cant figure out how do the III and VI behave?

Here's some info for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_function

[StyleOverShow]

Dude, what's up with the Sub-Dominant theory? III and VI are relative to the I....call it what you want. What's your issue?

[Elrend]

In a major key, the iii chord functions as a dominant, in a minor key it functions as a tonic.

[varunkapahi]

Originally Posted by Elrend

In a major key, the iii chord functions as a dominant, in a minor key it functions as a tonic.

please explain why the iii chord doesnt function as a tonic even though it does share two common chord tones with the tonic triad?

also what about the vi chord, does it function as a sub dominant or a tonic again?

[Elrend]

Originally Posted by varunkapahi

please explain why the iii chord doesnt function as a tonic even though it does share two common chord tones with the tonic triad?

also what about the vi chord, does it function as a sub dominant or a tonic again?

Because of its fifth, which is present in the dominant triad but not in the tonic triad.

[PlanetEarth]

Originally Posted by varunkapahi

in a major key,

is the III chord a tonic function or a dominant function!?

is the VI chord a tonic function or a sub dominant function?

because they both share two chord tones with either probables, am confused

for example: like the II chord is a sub dominant function and the VII is a dominant function i cant figure out how do the III and VI behave?

Depends on the context somewhat, e.g. in a vanilla jazz blues with a iii VI7 ii V7 I turn-around, the -7 to 7 is a sub dominant to dominant (2x), then dominant to tonic (loosely).

Classical diatonic chord function would call iii the Mediant and vi the sub mediant. In more contemporary music I think you are more likely to see iii-7(b5) VI7 (as stated above) which could be simplified as ii-7 V7 moving in 4ths back to the key center (tonic). But again, it all depends on the bigger picture; the context of the piece, style of music, melody, etc. to begin to speculate on harmonic function.

-PE

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by varunkapahi

please explain why the iii chord doesnt function as a tonic even though it does share two common chord tones with the tonic triad?

also what about the vi chord, does it function as a sub dominant or a tonic again?

Did you read the link I gave you?

There's a nice table that says the vi is the tonic parallel and the iii is EITHER the dominant parallel or the tonic counter-parallel.

[varunkapahi]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

Did you read the link I gave you?

There's a nice table that says the vi is the tonic parallel and the iii is EITHER the dominant parallel or the tonic counter-parallel.

read that, can you explain me what is the meaning of parallel and counter parallel here?

[slybass3000]

Originally Posted by varunkapahi

in a major key,

is the iii chord a tonic function or a dominant function!?

is the vi chord a tonic function or a sub dominant function?

because they both share two chord tones with either probables, am confused

for example: like the ii chord is a sub dominant function and the vii is a dominant function i cant figure out how do the iii and iv behave?

In a major key the iii and the vi are actually subs or replacements for the i as well. You can even see the iii as an inversion of the i with the third in the bass especially if the tonic (i) is in the melody.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by varunkapahi

read that, can you explain me what is the meaning of parallel and counter parallel here?

Not to be harsh, but all you had to do was click the links in the table. You could easily have followed that up yourself.

[varunkapahi]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

Not to be harsh, but all you had to do was click the links in the table. You could easily have followed that up yourself.

sorry i should have noticed the hyper link
thank you

[Ed Fuqua]

And the noise as the little wheels spin is almost deafening....

[MalcolmAmos]

This string contained a bunch of terms I had never seen before, so I sat this one out - until now. Quite often our name for things come from many and different studies we've done. We all know what we mean and none of us mean to be putting bad information out there, but, some of the names we use are not on everyone's go to list. Need I mention the many different ways modes are explained.

I've never know what super tonic means. I just looked it up and OK I agree that is what it is. Then I see a phrase like sub dominant parallel - and I now find its my ole ii.

Likewise I've never heard of Tonic Counter Parallel or even Tonic Parallel (now that one does make since if you think about it) however to me the iii is a leading chord and likes to drag the vi with it when it takes you off on a turn-a-round. I understand what it does but for the life of me I've never seen it called Tonic Counter Parallel.

Originally Posted by varunkapahi
in a major key,

• is the iii chord a tonic function or a dominant function!?
• is the vi chord a tonic function or a sub dominant function?
• because they both share two chord tones with either probables, am confused

I understand your confusion

Would be nice if we all spoke the same language, but, that would make it too easy.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

And the noise as the little wheels spin is almost deafening....

Because it's an iPhone

[Ed Fuqua]

I don't care.

[onlyclave]

Chord functions vs. chord names

Chord name:
I - tonic
ii - supertonic
iii - mediant
IV - subdominant
V - dominant
vi - submediant
vii - leading tone

FUNCTION:

mediant | subdominant | dominant | tonic
............|.....................|............... .|
iii..........|IV..................|V.............. .| I
vi..........|ii...................|viio........... ..|

Resolution --> moves --> this --> way

Don't confuse chord's function with it's name. Also, don't let the chord members confuse what the chord really is. The I, iii, and vi chords share two members but the ROOT of the chord determines it's function.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Chord functions vs. chord names

Chord name:
I - tonic
ii - supertonic
iii - mediant
IV - subdominant
V - dominant
vi - submediant
vii - leading tone

FUNCTION:

mediant | subdominant | dominant | tonic
............|.....................|............... .|
iii..........|IV..................|V.............. .| I
vi..........|ii...................|viio........... ..|

Resolution --> moves --> this --> way

Don't confuse chord's function with it's name. Also, don't let the chord members confuse what the chord really is. The I, iii, and vi chords share two members but the ROOT of the chord determines it's function.

Well, there are different schools of thought as to how many discrete harmonic functions there actually are. Some would say seven, one for each degree of the scale, and others would say just three (tonic, subdominant, and dominant). I confess that I've never come across a system that specifies four functions the way you list them here. (Of course, I haven't been looking all that hard, either.)

Personally, I'm not sure I'm convinced by the idea of a mediant function that (a) includes both the mediant proper and the submediant and (b) is of equal weight to the tonic, subdominant, and dominant functions. Either the seven functions or the three make more sense to me. YMMV.